Ski Tuck

[martyg]

Curious... Where did the tuck position where a skier holds their arms along their torso, and poles behind them, come from? Is it based in any objective data that it is more efficient? Or a fashion statement? Or a point of compensation for those with poor thoracic flexibility?

 

[Philpug]

Aerodynamics I am sure. I know @Daron Rahlves was a master as was Billy Johnson. There are DH courses that favor "gliders" such as Lake Louise.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Curious... Where did the tuck position where a skier holds their arms along their torso, and poles behind them, come from? Is it based in any objective data that it is more efficient? Or a fashion statement? Or a point of compensation for those with poor thoracic flexibility?

You mean like this?


Or like this?

I think your question is about this second image.

I've always thought people do this because hugging the body with the arms and hands feels safer than moving those hands out in front and disengaging the arms from the torso. Those are wannabe racers using that distorted pose. They don't understand the role their arms can play on speed. All they know is that they will be going super fast, maybe faster than they can control, and that this speed comes simply by bending low to eliminate wind resistance. They want a bit of comfort and security at that speed, so they protect themselves by bracing their arms against their bodies.

 

[karlo]

Is it based in any objective data that it is more efficient?

 

[noncrazycanuck]

think meant with the arms tight to body hands wrapped behind back holding poles, and bend/tuck as needed for speed adjustment, pretty common stance for a bit better aero dynamics on long flat ski outs.

 

[slowrider]

Factors affecting the aerodynamic drag of alpine skiers

This paper documents a five year testing program that identified factors affecting the aerodynamic drag (Fd) of alpine skiers. Wind tunnel Fd measurem…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[martyg]

You mean like this?
View attachment 104946

Or like this?
View attachment 104947
I think your question is about this second image.

I've always thought people do this because hugging the body with the arms and hands feels safer than moving those hands out in front and disengaging the arms from the torso. Those are wannabe racers using that distorted pose. They don't understand the role their arms can play on speed. All they know is that they will be going super fast, maybe faster than they can control, and that this speed comes simply by bending low to eliminate wind resistance. They want a bit of comfort and security at that speed, so they protect themselves by bracing their arms against their bodies.

Oh. The Texas Tuck. Not what I was trying to convey. I Googled it but couldn't find references and / or images.

 

[martyg]

think meant with the arms tight to body hands wrapped behind back holding poles, and bend/tuck as needed for speed adjustment, pretty common stance for a bit better aero dynamics on long flat ski outs.

Bingo. Most often I see skiers bent at the waist. Very little artculation in knees / ankles. Looks like an incredibly static posiion.

Usually I glide past these skiers while carving long radius turns on properly tuned skis. It seems to be the skiers who think that they know, but really don't.

Was wondering if, at some point a skier with a following did this, and others glommed onto it as something that was efficient / cool.

 

[crgildart]

Sputnik FTW!

 

[LiquidFeet]

think meant with the arms tight to body hands wrapped behind back holding poles, and bend/tuck as needed for speed adjustment, pretty common stance for a bit better aero dynamics on long flat ski outs.

Bingo.

@martyg, you say "bingo." Did you really mean the hands are "wrapped behind the back"? I've never seen anyone do that in a tuck. Something like this?

 

[noncrazycanuck]

never though it was a "cool" look but along with alternating the slip streams it does help maintain a bit more speed on a long flat ski out.
tucking for several miles can get a bit tiring.

 

[KevinF]

So there's the classic Lindsey Vonn-style downhill tuck. I don't think there's any debate regarding the aerodynamic efficiency of that position. I've used some variation of this to get across flats, cat tracks, or just to practice tuck turns. Cycling will get you used to getting your back low and your hands out front (unless you feel like not holding onto the handlebars...).

There's the Texas Tuck as pictured above... I figured it comes from people trying to emulate Lindsey while not having any sort of self-perception regarding how far off the "ideal" they are. I will plead the fifth regarding having possibly adopted this position myself.

And then there's what I've heard called Patroller Tucks where you don't get into a tuck at all, but you do put your hands behind your back. I've done it on runouts when you're not "supposed" to do a real tuck, but you feel like you should improve your aerodynamic profile in some fashion. Probably makes absolutely no difference, but it's still fun.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

View attachment 104962
[/QUOTE]
now that looks awkward

 

[Bad Bob]

Pretty sure it is all about New School Cool. With that much more surface area, no way it is more aerodynamic than the egg.

 

[coskigirl]

@martyg, you say "bingo." Did you really mean the hands are "wrapped behind the back"? I've never seen anyone do that in a tuck. Something like this?
View attachment 104962

I think the word "tuck" is throwing you off. I'm sure you've seen people do this, I do it. Do I have any scientific evidence on it? Nope. Does it feel faster on long flat catwalks? Yep.

 

[slowrider]

Riding the edges is faster than riding the bases even on the flats.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Still wondering what we are talking about.

Where did the tuck position where a skier holds their arms along their torso, and poles behind them, come from? Is it based in any objective data that it is more efficient? Or a fashion statement? Or a point of compensation for those with poor thoracic flexibility?

....And then there's what I've heard called Patroller Tucks where you don't get into a tuck at all, but you do put your hands behind your back. ....

I think the word "tuck" is throwing you off. I'm sure you've seen people do this, I do it. Do I have any scientific evidence on it? Nope. Does it feel faster on long flat catwalks? Yep.

If it's not a tuck at all but leaning forward while holding hands together behind the back, poles pointing backwards in the air behind the skier, then I've also done this. It's useful for aerodynamic reasons on catwalks and the like. The muscular tension required for holding a real tuck is not needed. It's a lazy way to speed up on the near-flats. I didn't know it had a name. Patroller Tuck. Huh.

 

[crgildart]

Are you talking about kinda like they use for speed skating and longboarding speed, but with poles dragging behind?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Yes.

 

[Crank]

So there's the classic Lindsey Vonn-style downhill tuck. I don't think there's any debate regarding the aerodynamic efficiency of that position. I've used some variation of this to get across flats, cat tracks, or just to practice tuck turns. Cycling will get you used to getting your back low and your hands out front (unless you feel like not holding onto the handlebars...).

There's the Texas Tuck as pictured above... I figured it comes from people trying to emulate Lindsey while not having any sort of self-perception regarding how far off the "ideal" they are. I will plead the fifth regarding having possibly adopted this position myself.

And then there's what I've heard called Patroller Tucks where you don't get into a tuck at all, but you do put your hands behind your back. I've done it on runouts when you're not "supposed" to do a real tuck, but you feel like you should improve your aerodynamic profile in some fashion. Probably makes absolutely no difference, but it's still fun.

No, that's abut keeping your hands out of the wind and thus warmer.