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Shell For ZipFit

Quandary

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I have been skiing my ZipFit Gara LV liners in my Lange RX 130LVs for awhile now and the liners have broken in nicely. Unfortunately what I have discovered is that for my foot the RX 130 LVs and ZipFits are not an ideal combination. While the ankle and upper shell area are a good fit the fore body of this boot is big. Not necessarily side to side but circumference. The toe box in particular is quite large. I need different shells. My regular boot shop, like most shops, does not carry all the brands and does not have all the sizes in stock. Consequently in my search I am going to consider other shells to try. I wanted to get some input as to shells I should seek out.

So far I have tried the ZipFits in 4 shells. The aforementioned Lange's, the Dalbello 130LVs I foolishly bought at the beginning of the year and skied 3 times then realizing that 3 piece boots aren't for me, Technica Mach 1 130s and Nordica Promachines. As discussed above the RXs are to voluminous in the front half. Ditto the Dalbellos and the ZipFits just aren't a good fit in general. The room in the Technica's above the arch is just to low and would require way to much work to make fit. The Promachines were almost spot on. Narrower and less circumference in the forefoot than the RX, good fit in the ankle and upper cuff, just enough room, but not too much, above the arch. After wearing the boot in the shop for 15/20 minutes I think after skiing it a few days the only punch I might need is a small one at the back end of the outside metatarsal on left foot. (Honestly I am almost leary of a shell that would require so little work...) The only thing I would change in the Promachines would be to have a bit less room in the toe box. After talking with the ZipFit folks I understand their aim is to make sure the metatarsal heads and toes have the room necessary to fully spread and balance, perhaps the exact fit the Promachine is giving me?

In any event if you have persevered through this discussion, any suggestions as to a shell I should try that are close to a Promachine fit with a bit smaller toe box area? The fitter at the shop that carries Nordica thought I should try the Atomic Hawx Ultras. They are not an Atomic shop, I appreciated that suggestion.
 
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The Redster CS was suggested as well. I think the Dobermann may be more boot than an old man needs. I also spend a lot of time in the bowls at Breck and think perhaps a race type boot would not be ideal. However never having skied one I am purely speculating.
 
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Update; After skiing this morning look around and found a shop with Atomic and Nordica. Went to the shop with my liners and shells. I was thus able to compare real time the RX, Hawx Ultra and Promachine shells.

The Hawx Ultra once on had the best foot volumn (i.e. lowest), a big but however. The junction of the boot and top of the shell is tiny. Getting the ZipFits and foot in is virtually impossible. Then once in the there is no where near enough room over the top of the arch area of the foot. I didn't even try to buckle it the separation of the shell was so great, the plastic was buckled. I don't know who that mold is designed for but certainly not me. It's unfortunate because the boot is otherwise a great fit but for those two design flaws ;)

The Promachine is a bit better than the RX in the front (not enough better) but has more room in the ankle/rear foot area. Consequently the Promachine is out.

So Technica Mach 1, Lange RX, Atomic Hawx Ultra, Nordica Promachine are out. Now what? Dobermann, Lange RS, Fischer RC4?
 

Noodler

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The Dobie 5 may be too low volume for your foot+Gara LV, but there's no harm in giving it a try. You can get the exact same shell in multiple flexes, so don't worry about that issue. It's too bad that Nordica dumped the GP series because I bet that boot would have worked for you. It was a true race-inspired boot, unlike the Machine series boots.

Don't be afraid of potentially needing more work to make a boot fit. That just means you'll end up with a closer match to your actual foot instead of settling for a compromise.
 

Wade

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Update; After skiing this morning look around and found a shop with Atomic and Nordica. Went to the shop with my liners and shells. I was thus able to compare real time the RX, Hawx Ultra and Promachine shells.

The Hawx Ultra once on had the best foot volumn (i.e. lowest), a big but however. The junction of the boot and top of the shell is tiny. Getting the ZipFits and foot in is virtually impossible. Then once in the there is no where near enough room over the top of the arch area of the foot. I didn't even try to buckle it the separation of the shell was so great, the plastic was buckled. I don't know who that mold is designed for but certainly not me. It's unfortunate because the boot is otherwise a great fit but for those two design flaws ;)

The Promachine is a bit better than the RX in the front (not enough better) but has more room in the ankle/rear foot area. Consequently the Promachine is out.

So Technica Mach 1, Lange RX, Atomic Hawx Ultra, Nordica Promachine are out. Now what? Dobermann, Lange RS, Fischer RC4?
For what it’s worth, I’m in Ultra 130s and Gara HVs.

The first time I put my foot and liner into the boot, it looked pretty much like you’re describing. I did a ton of heat cycles + wearing the boot around the house, and it got a little better with each one. After skiing this setup maybe 10 days, the overlap was closing pretty normally, and while it still has more bulk than the stock liner, I have no issues buckling the boot. In retrospect, I probably should have started with a Gara HV, but after taking a little cork out, I’m happy with where everything wound up.

in terms of getting into the boot, the thing that works for me is using the Steve Bagley / Snowbird boot horn, and then flexing up my instep to spread the overlap as I’m getting into the shell. It’s less than 5 seconds per boot to get in.
 
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I found a shop that still has RX130 LVs and was able to see if a virgin shell would work with the ZipFits better than my shells where I have done my best to reverse the previous punches. The virgin shell was better but not enough to warrant the $450 to replace my current shells.

After trying on all these shells what I need is a shell with the ankle/heel/"throat"/above the arch room of the Lange RX 130LV and the foot width and toe box of the Atomic Hawx Ultra. Does this shell exist?
 

chris_the_wrench

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While the ankle and upper shell area are a good fit the fore body of this boot is big. Not necessarily side to side but circumference. The toe box in particular is quite large. I need different shells.

Just asking out of curiosity have you tried lifting the boot board in your existing shells? Me and my zipfits are the exact opposite i generally need to lower(sand) the bootboard so my toes have enough heigh clearance to fit my knuckles.
 
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I have run three different inserts thin, medium and large. Thin does nothing, medium is an improvement, thick is too much.
 

Scruffy

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Have you tried the K2 Recon LV 130? I don't know your foot, but if they are available to try, why not.
 
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As a brand I would have a hard time pulling the trigger on K2 boots. Like just about everything else K2 are the the boots made in china?
 
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I am told there is no where in Summit or Eagle county CO that carry Dobermanns. Are the Dobermann's a 'family" fit? i.e. like the Promachine but narrower foot bed?
 

Noodler

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I am told there is no where in Summit or Eagle county CO that carry Dobermanns. Are the Dobermann's a 'family" fit? i.e. like the Promachine but narrower foot bed?

No. Machine series are consumer boots. Dobies are race boots.
 
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i understand that but for example the Lange RS and RX are similar. I have read that the Dobermann and Promachine are similar in the throat (upper/lower junction) hence the question. From what I have read the 5s are more of a relaxed race boot.
 

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As a brand I would have a hard time pulling the trigger on K2 boots. Like just about everything else K2 are the the boots made in china?
No--their boots are made in Italy; their skis are made in China. I had basically the same bias as you; however, during a ski trip to Banff in 2019, I decided I wanted to get new ski boots. Between the positive exchange rate, and being that it was end of season, I was hunting for a deal. I'm a former ski racer and have experience with race boots, both plug boots and citizen race, but I've moved from racing and now use performance fit LV 130 boots. I was specifically looking at the Nordica Pro Machine and a few of the Lange offerings. Nothing was really wowing me, but I was almost settling on the ProMachines, when the boot fitter said: " I have something else for you to try" and went into the back room and brought out some K2 Recon 130 LVs. My initial thought was, "oh no, not K2, what to they know about boots". I tried them on and my feet fell in love with them! I looked at the boots and they said "Made in Italy" All great ski boots are made in Italy; think Old World Craftsman. Been skiing them ever since. Great boots if they fit your feet. Phil likes em too.

Edited to add: I'm skiing them with Gara LV liners BTW.
 
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No--their boots are made in Italy; their skis are made in China. I had basically the same bias as you; however, during a ski trip to Banff in 2019, I decided I wanted to get new ski boots. Between the positive exchange rate, and being that it was end of season, I was hunting for a deal. I'm a former ski racer and have experience with race boots, both plug boots and citizen race, but I've moved from racing and now use performance fit LV 130 boots. I was specifically looking at the Nordica Pro Machine and a few of the Lange offerings. Nothing was really wowing me, but I was almost settling on the ProMachines, when the boot fitter said: " I have something else for you to try" and went into the back room and brought out some K2 Recon 130 LVs. My initial thought was, "oh no, not K2, what to they know about boots". I tried them on and my feet fell in love with them! I looked at the boots and they said "Made in Italy" All great ski boots are made in Italy; think Old World Craftsman. Been skiing them ever since. Great boots if they fit your feet. Phil likes em too.

Edited to add: I'm skiing them with Gara LV liners BTW.

Thanks! I will hunt them down and give them a try. Do you feel like they have a smaller shell fit than the Promachines? I like the Promachines but they are just not LV enough.
 

Scruffy

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Thanks! I will hunt them down and give them a try. Do you feel like they have a smaller shell fit than the Promachines? I like the Promachines but they are just not LV enough.
More LV than pro machine for my feet. I am on the 2019 model. Do not know if they have changed?
 
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Amazingly difficult to find higher end boots in Summit County CO. I guess that shows what a small part of the market it is
 

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Amazingly difficult to find higher end boots in Summit County CO. I guess that shows what a small part of the market it is

It's more about what the market is like out West in places like CO. At Mount Tremblant there are so many high-end ski shops with tons of race equipment and upper tier gear that it made my head spin. All you need to do to understand this is go ski Tremblant. I saw more good skiers on good equipment there in a few days than I have in the entire past 20 years of skiing out West.
 

Scruffy

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It's more about what the market is like out West in places like CO. At Mount Tremblant there are so many high-end ski shops with tons of race equipment and upper tier gear that it made my head spin. All you need to do to understand this is go ski Tremblant. I saw more good skiers on good equipment there in a few days than I have in the entire past 20 years of skiing out West.
When were you there? I ski Tremblant from time to time. Great mountain when it’s all open.wa just there a few weeks ago.
 

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