Semantics

[gabrik]

I realized there are many great skiers here. I know too that semantics causes many (a lot of) misintepretation. I watched video NZSIA
and about 20:10 i think that word "separation" means low "rotation" hip ("...a little bit of separation...."). Can i ask you to interpret it ?

 

[crgildart]

This probably belongs in ski school instead of new to skiing.,

 

[pchewn]

I was bored watching that video, but I have to say I love the way they superimposed a skeletal image onto the skier's photo to highlight the position of various body parts.

 

[pchewn]

"Separation" in ski instruction lingo usually means the lower body (legs) doing "separate" motions than the upper body (chest). Especially separate rotations.

It also can be verbalized as "keep the upper body quiet" or "keep the chest pointing downhill has you turn".

 

[LiquidFeet]

Separation:
Skis point one direction, belly button points another direction.
Or skis point on way, jacket zipper faces another direction.
Upper body points downhill, skis point left-right in very short turns.
Thighs point in one direction, pelvis points in another.
The point where the "separation" occurs is the top of the femur where it inserts into the pelvis.
You may encounter the word "counter." The direction the skis are pointing is countered by the way the upper body, including pelvis, faces.

In the image above, the pelvis and skis point in the same direction only when the skis point downhill.

For many recreational skiers, they allow the upper body, including pelvis, to point the same direction their skis are pointing. There is no separation between upper and lower body. This limits how well they can control their turns.

 

[pchewn]

You may encounter the word "counter."

Touche'

 

[Shawn]

Like sleigh bells to my ears, you know ski season is around the corner when arguments start over ski vocabulary/ anatomy/ physiology.

 

[pchewn]

Like sleigh bells to my ears, you know ski season is around the corner when arguments start over ski vocabulary/ anatomy/ physiology.

Nobody is arguing .... yet. Just trying to answer his questions.

But I guess I AM arguing with you about whether we are arguing .....

Yep, we definitely need the snow to start falling and the lifts to start spinning.

 

[Jilly]

Separation:

You may encounter the word "counter." The direction the skis are pointing is countered by the way the upper body, including pelvis, faces.

But, if you're being taught by a CSIA member, we will say counter-rotation. The upper body is counter rotated to the lower body.

 

[gabrik]

@pchewn @LiquidFeet ok, i understand, but when you used phrase (@Jilly ) "counter rotation"? i "hear" the words Richi Berger "...separation skiing myths") but i want understanding differences in nomenclature english and my language. Thx for yours reply.

 

[Gina D]

The point where the "separation" occurs is the top of the femur where it inserts into the pelvis.

There are other parts of the body that can be the separation point. Tom Gellie teaches separation at multiple points in the body.

So in a general sense separation refers to a place where one part of the body rotates more or less than another. Yes to many, particularly PSIA, separation happens at the femur/pelvis joint (hip joint) but it can happen at the waist, or even higher up the body.

Semantics indeed!

 

[gabrik]

@pchewn @LiquidFeet ok, i understand, but when you used phrase (@Jilly ) "counter rotation"? i "hear" the words Richi Berger "...separation skiing myths") but i want understanding differences in nomenclature english and my language. Thx for yours reply.

EDIT: I am sorry, My big mistake (i think my grammar) - When will you use phrase "counter rotation"?

 

[Disinterested]

Seperation means any time one body part or segment does something different from the others, when it comes to skiing.

Rotational seperation is the type of seperation most often described in skiing. Typically it refers to the legs turning more than the hips and upper body, preferably with the turning action being generated by the lower body.

'Counteraction' or 'counter-rotation' refer to the forces working in the body to make this happen. There are differences of opinion in skiing about how this works, but, in essence, for your legs to turn seperately or more than your upper body, your upper body has to supply some resistance to the force generated by your legs turning, so that it doesn't get torqued in the same direction as the legs, so that you can end your turn with seperation.

 

[Henry]

For many recreational skiers, they allow the upper body, including pelvis, to point the same direction their skis are pointing. There is no separation between upper and lower body. This limits how well they can control their turns.

I was teaching some boys in the 9-10 age range when one told me about how great his dad was skiing (without instruction) by swinging his shoulders really hard to the right so his skis would go right. I grimaced.

 

[Seldomski]

Separation means the orientation of some body parts relative to the fall line behave in dissimilar fashion in 'good skiing'. For instance, your feet are changing orientation relative to the fall line as your turn, but your torso and head may not be, or doing so in amplitudes that are greatly reduced in comparison.

To achieve this means coordinating motions across your entire body. It is a very active endeavor to ski with separation. This is something that confused me for a long time. Separation doesn't mean you focus on only your feet and your upper body flops about at the top, relatively unengaged. You need to focus on everything to a degree.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Separation doesn't mean you focus on only your feet and your upper body flops about at the top, relatively unengaged. You need to focus on everything to a degree.

^^ This.

 

[precisionchiro]

I've always loathed the term "separation" in describing movements of the body when skiing.

Yes, there are "countering" and "opposing" movements of body regions or body parts in effective ski technique. But the term "separate" implies "unconnected/disconnected" or "unrelated" or "apart."

I think a much better term is "coordination," e.g. UB/LB Coordination.

Opposing/countering movements should be proportional, complementary, interdependent.... COORDINATED.

Not separated.

 

[gabrik]

I do not understand phrase "white pass" , in the context of ski turn.

 

[pchewn]

I do not understand phrase "white pass" , in the context of ski turn.

White Pass is a ski area in Washington state USA. Two twin brother ski racers (Phil and Steve Mahre) learned to ski there. They named a ski training drill (the White Pass Turn) after their childhood ski area.

 

[Jilly]

It's a drill.

https://psia-c.org/white-pass-turn/#:~:text=Activity Description:,inside ski off the snow.