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School me on mountain biking (please!)

zircon

Out on the slopes
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Feb 23, 2018
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I can’t believe it’s not England!
Help a poor roadie out, please! I let myself get talked into entering an XC race this weekend (Gnar Weasels, for the New Englanders) by a buddy I race CX with. Number of times I’ve been mountain biking in my life: twice. Once in high school making poor choices on the ubiquitous entry level Trek hardtail, once downhill with the same friend this weekend.

So here I am now with a borrowed XC bike and an assortment of mediocre cyclocross skills, hopelessly out of my depth. There’s some mellow singletrack near my house that I can get to in the next three days. And when cross racing I thrive on sketchy terrain. What do I need to know? What do I need to know but don’t have time to learn? Am I going to die?

I don’t even know how to set mg saddle height optimally here. SOS and thanks in advance.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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If you get into trouble, DROP YOUR CHEST lower. Chicken wing elbows (point elbows out.) Use the dropper if the bike has one. Level pedals if you don't already know that.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Z

zircon

Out on the slopes
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I can’t believe it’s not England!
I assume back behind the saddle and low, same as sketchy cross descents? Or what we call "attack position". This is the bike in question: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/SearchListingDetail.aspx?id=23203&make=1006&model=61415 (BBB for the picture and specs, I know their valuation is BS).

No dropper. In the absence of a dropper, put it similar to the CX bike (a touch lower than the road bike) or some mid-level compromise between that and fully down and out of the way?
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
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I assume back behind the saddle and low, same as sketchy cross descents?
No dropper. In the absence of a dropper, put it similar to the CX bike (a touch lower than the road bike) or some mid-level compromise between that and fully down and out of the way?
I don't compromise much on the height and I don't run a dropper. I personally don't have a lot of problem dropping off the back of the saddle but everyone has their own style. You could lower but to make it of any use you will not be able to climb or hammer. Either get the dropper or learn to slide off the back. Or hoof it... It's good to keep speed in sketchy stuff..you can carry more speed than your CX because the bike will take more abuse especially with the front shock. Set the shock up properly for your weight..there is a manual online and you can fine tune with air pressure and damping more than likely. In bumpy terrain uphill, keep up your cadence, it provides you with more opportunity to recover from slides, but don't spin out from too much torque. Learn quickly to do a double-stutter type of pedal motion so you don't hit rocks or roots at the bottom of your pedal circle. In bumpy flat or downhill terrain it's good to have a lower cadence and absorb those bumps with your legs while you pedal..it's faster and smoother. Ride the berm in turns..don't panic and take the inside line..it only looks safer... More braking comes from the front brake no matter what terrain unless you're descending something very steep. As Amy says, when it gets really steep going uphill, stick the nose of the saddle up your butt and pull the bars close to your chest. That's the only way to keep the front wheel down. If it's bumpy and you're going fast, you may want to keep three fingers on the bar and one on the levers..those brakes can probably be locked with your index finger only and you'll have an easier time holding onto the bar. And don't lock your arms up all the time..no death grip..try to stay at least a little loose.

Look ahead, time your downshifts properly (shift earlier than you probably think..), pick a good line if possible and be careful if you're going through a creek where you can't see the bottom. You make mistakes and are more likely to fall or dab when you're tired.

Give way on the track..riders who you're holding up will ask for Track Left or Track Right..so try to stay to the other side..unless you think you're faster and can hold them off..which sounds unlikely.. :D Except uphill maybe. Most time lost in XC races is uphill, on rooted/rocky technical stuff and downhills, in that order. Almost all XC riders can go downhill reasonably quickly..but you can gain significant time on the uphills. It's hard to pass on single track so if you think you have someone, take him/her on the double track or wider open areas then hold them up in the single track if you have too. Just like road, passing on the uphill is the most demoralizing..especially if you wave and say "Nice day today eh?" in a very calm, unaffected voice.. :D

And enjoy the beers at the end!!
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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I assume back behind the saddle and low, same as sketchy cross descents? Or what we call "attack position". This is the bike in question: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/SearchListingDetail.aspx?id=23203&make=1006&model=61415 (BBB for the picture and specs, I know their valuation is BS).

No dropper. In the absence of a dropper, put it similar to the CX bike (a touch lower than the road bike) or some mid-level compromise between that and fully down and out of the way?
Attack position, or athletic position. Just get the center of gravity lower on the descents.

And, that looks fun as hell! How many miles? I'd love to do a ride like that!
 
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Z

zircon

Out on the slopes
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Feb 23, 2018
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857
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I can’t believe it’s not England!
I don't compromise much on the height and I don't run a dropper. I personally don't have a lot of problem dropping off the back of the saddle but everyone has their own style. You could lower but to make it of any use you will not be able to climb or hammer. Either get the dropper or learn to slide off the back. Or hoof it... It's good to keep speed in sketchy stuff..you can carry more speed than your CX because the bike will take more abuse especially with the front shock. Set the shock up properly for your weight..there is a manual online and you can fine tune with air pressure and damping more than likely. In bumpy terrain uphill, keep up your cadence, it provides you with more opportunity to recover from slides, but don't spin out from too much torque. Learn quickly to do a double-stutter type of pedal motion so you don't hit rocks or roots at the bottom of your pedal circle. In bumpy flat or downhill terrain it's good to have a lower cadence and absorb those bumps with your legs while you pedal..it's faster and smoother. Ride the berm in turns..don't panic and take the inside line..it only looks safer... More braking comes from the front brake no matter what terrain unless you're descending something very steep. As Amy says, when it gets really steep going uphill, stick the nose of the saddle up your butt and pull the bars close to your chest. That's the only way to keep the front wheel down. If it's bumpy and you're going fast, you may want to keep three fingers on the bar and one on the levers..those brakes can probably be locked with your index finger only and you'll have an easier time holding onto the bar. And don't lock your arms up all the time..no death grip..try to stay at least a little loose.

Look ahead, time your downshifts properly (shift earlier than you probably think..), pick a good line if possible and be careful if you're going through a creek where you can't see the bottom. You make mistakes and are more likely to fall or dab when you're tired.

Give way on the track..riders who you're holding up will ask for Track Left or Track Right..so try to stay to the other side..unless you think you're faster and can hold them off..which sounds unlikely.. :D Except uphill maybe. Most time lost in XC races is uphill, on rooted/rocky technical stuff and downhills, in that order. Almost all XC riders can go downhill reasonably quickly..but you can gain significant time on the uphills. It's hard to pass on single track so if you think you have someone, take him/her on the double track or wider open areas then hold them up in the single track if you have too. Just like road, passing on the uphill is the most demoralizing..especially if you wave and say "Nice day today eh?" in a very calm, unaffected voice.. :D

And enjoy the beers at the end!!

No time to get a hold of a dropper, and I return the bike next week (and probably won't buy my own). So setting up the saddle like the CX sounds like it'll work okay. Good to know. Thankfully, I'm also about the same size and weight as the person who owns the bike (bike racing buddy's girlfriend).

Braking from the front seems pretty standard across all disciplines. Rear brake on this bike is badly in need of a bleed, but they held up okay on test ride this afternoon. Good to know about position when climbing. I did notice this afternoon that the balance is... different when going uphill. Pretty sure I'm aiming to be last in the novice division here. I'm an okay climber, but embarrassingly awful at descending.

That's actually some nice easy stuff and looks very fun. Oh, grass is way slower than you think..and way more slippery when wet than you think.. :D
Ha, grass, especially wet grass, is the only thing I am prepared for! Cross season last year was one long continuous mudfest. It's the rocks and trees that concern me. :eek:

Thanks!
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
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I'm an okay climber, but embarrassingly awful at descending.
Let it run..feel the flow..absorb the bumps..you'll do fine. Speed is probably more your friend than enemy..it'll keep the bike rolling over the bumpy stuff. Rocks and roots are worst when wet..tread carefully then. Otherwise, they're just bumps..bunny-hop at speed if you can and lift the front then back when you're going slow.

And crush them on the uphill!! I guarantee you, you won't be last in novice. A lot of those novices will be walking up hills....
 

coskigirl

Skiing the powder
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I did the novice Sisters Stampede at 13.5 miles with no mtb race experience and being really out of shape. A week later I did the 8 mile Beti Bike Bash. You really won’t die.
 

AmyPJ

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I'll be doing the novice division, so... 6 miles. But for you more competent types it goes up to 18!
What a hoot! I'm doing a 13 miler with 2000 feet of climbing in less than two weeks. :D I think you'll do better than you believe you will!

Just don't lock up those elbows on the descents. Stay loose and let the bars wiggle a little beneath you without freaking out and trying to manhandle them. Let the suspension work for you in the chunk by relaxing. I'm telling you, anytime I start getting bucked around I immediately lower my chest with relaxed elbows and it steadies everything up. And use both brakes! My rule of thumb is typically 60/40 rear/front. Try to release the brakes at or before the apex of a turn.
 

coskigirl

Skiing the powder
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Let it run..feel the flow..absorb the bumps..you'll do fine. Speed is probably more your friend than enemy..it'll keep the bike rolling over the bumpy stuff. Rocks and roots are worst when wet..tread carefully then. Otherwise, they're just bumps..bunny-hop at speed if you can and lift the front then back when you're going slow.

And crush them on the uphill!! I guarantee you, you won't be last in novice. A lot of those novices will be walking up hills....

I walked up hills at the BBB and wasn’t last. I knew if I could keep a couple people who started with me behind me on the uphills I could kill them on the descent. I did and it worked.
 

Rod9301

Making fresh tracks
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Joined
Jan 11, 2016
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2,485
I assume back behind the saddle and low, same as sketchy cross descents? Or what we call "attack position". This is the bike in question: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/SearchListingDetail.aspx?id=23203&make=1006&model=61415 (BBB for the picture and specs, I know their valuation is BS).

No dropper. In the absence of a dropper, put it similar to the CX bike (a touch lower than the road bike) or some mid-level compromise between that and fully down and out of the way?
You need a dropper.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
No time to get a hold of a dropper, and I return the bike next week (and probably won't buy my own). So setting up the saddle like the CX sounds like it'll work okay. Good to know. Thankfully, I'm also about the same size and weight as the person who owns the bike (bike racing buddy's girlfriend).

Braking from the front seems pretty standard across all disciplines. Rear brake on this bike is badly in need of a bleed, but they held up okay on test ride this afternoon. Good to know about position when climbing. I did notice this afternoon that the balance is... different when going uphill. Pretty sure I'm aiming to be last in the novice division here. I'm an okay climber, but embarrassingly awful at descending.


Ha, grass, especially wet grass, is the only thing I am prepared for! Cross season last year was one long continuous mudfest. It's the rocks and trees that concern me. :eek:

Thanks!

Is your bike racing buddy Thom?
 

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