Resort immunity threatened by lawsuit

[Wilhelmson]

Not following this and not a lawyer. Its possible to imagine a scenario where an indecent’s circumstances supercede a waiver of liability. Probably happens all the time and for sure wouldn’t be the first time.

 

[Aeolian]

Thanks for being a voice of reason. Shit happens. Seems hard for some people and some systems to accept that sometimes shit happens...

Shit happens. But it happens less when:

- you hire the right people
- hire enough of the right people to get the job done
- pay those people adequately
- have good processes & train your staff properly
- audit & tune your performance

Ski area business models seem to bank a lot on legal indemnification and waivers. My bet is that they'd clean up a lot of things if they could not externalize a their sloppiness and excessive "cost cutting". Skiing has inherent risks. For sure. But letting ski areas off the hook for sloppy lift ops, unmarked hazards (notably obvious and reported ones), etc. should stop. Because a lot of that "shit" does not need to happen.

 

[Jwrags]

Parents/legal guardians sign waivers. Minors can't, at least in WA.

In Oregon you only have to be 15 to sign consent for surgery. Not sure about other legal forms.

 

[Slim]

Shit happens. But it happens less when:

- you hire the right people
- hire enough of the right people to get the job done
- pay those people adequately
- have good processes & train your staff properly
- audit & tune your performance

Ski area business models seem to bank a lot on legal indemnification and waivers. My bet is that they'd clean up a lot of things if they could not externalize a their sloppiness and excessive "cost cutting". Skiing has inherent risks. For sure. But letting ski areas off the hook for sloppy lift ops, unmarked hazards (notably obvious and reported ones), etc. should stop. Because a lot of that "shit" does not need to happen.

Yes. A few years ago there was a case in CO where some people got seriously injured when fell off the lift platform as they were unloading. It was very high and steep on the side.That should never happen. Rebuilding that top station to have a sufficiently large platform or installing railings, there are many easy solutions, but they cost money.

At the same time, if someone decides to huck a cliff, or do a jump in the terrain park, falling and getting injured there is on you.

Both are injuries due to falling, but one should be prevented, while the other is personal freedom to take risks.

 

[Wilhelmson]

We’re talking about parental liability waivers here. Or is there more to it?

I’ve signed one for every field trip and activity for the past 17 years. I called our health insurance company today about a copay and had to get my kid’s authorization to talk to them due to a missing Hippa.

 

[Don4Fun]

This topic is very interesting to me and I appreciate all the comments and information that is posted.
I'm going to follow along to see what the Colorado Supreme Court decision will be.
If anyone besides myself wants to read the Crested Butte waiver (page 3&4) here is the link.

https://www.skicb.com/-/media/crested-butte/files/final-locals-programs-registration-and-waiver.ashx

In my opinion, I don't see the Colorado Supreme Court overturning the other Courts decision.
I think the girl did not load properly and for some reason the lift operator was not paying close enough attention.
I don't know all the details of what happened, and it is an unfortunate accident for the family and all involved.
But there are risk with skiing & boarding that includes riding on the chairlift. Hence, signing the waiver.
We all need to be aware of our surroundings and to be safe out there.

 

[Don4Fun]

From my further reading about this from other sources on the Internet.
Two of the three charges were dismissed by the Broomfield District Court, because of the Liability Waiver.
That would be the violations of Duty of Care, and a Negligence charge.
This is what they took to the Colorado Supreme Court trying to reverse that decision.
The charge of Gross Negligence is scheduled for trial in September 2024, but is harder to prove.
I'll try to follow along and give updates whenever possible.
Be safe out there & Have Fun.

 

[MissySki]

This topic is very interesting to me and I appreciate all the comments and information that is posted.
I'm going to follow along to see what the Colorado Supreme Court decision will be.
If anyone besides myself wants to read the Crested Butte waiver (page 3&4) here is the link.

https://www.skicb.com/-/media/crested-butte/files/final-locals-programs-registration-and-waiver.ashx

In my opinion, I don't see the Colorado Supreme Court overturning the other Courts decision.
I think the girl did not load properly and for some reason the lift operator was not paying close enough attention.
I don't know all the details of what happened, and it is an unfortunate accident for the family and all involved.
But there are risk with skiing & boarding that includes riding on the chairlift. Hence, signing the waiver.
We all need to be aware of our surroundings and to be safe out there.

Sorry not sure I’m fully following, are you saying that if the lift operator wasn’t paying close enough attention to react as appropriate in their job when the accident occurred, that the resort should still NOT be held liable in some way for the accident.. because of the waiver?

 

[scott43]

Not to speak for Don but I think they're not going to meet the level of gross negligence and this case is dead. Basically it's a tragedy but the resort isn't going to end up being found negligent.

 

[Don4Fun]

Sorry not sure I’m fully following, are you saying that if the lift operator wasn’t paying close enough attention to react as appropriate in their job when the accident occurred, that the resort should still NOT be held liable in some way for the accident.. because of the waiver?

I think that is what this case is all about.
I'll admit that my grammar maybe a little confusing. I'm a skier not a Lawyer.
This case was forwarded to the Colorado Supreme Court to look into the issue about the waiver.
And the District Court has to decide about the facts when the Gross Negligence Charge goes to court.
Was the lift operator distracted by something else, or waiting to see if the father could pull the girl back onto the chair? I don't know.
And how many lift operators were present when this happened? Why wasn't the stop button immediately pushed? I don't know.
Yes, there are circumstances where a Ski Resort can be sued, and this is an unfortunate accident.

 

[Lauren]

Thinking about a scenario that occurred last weekend at Sunday River while I was about to load one of the lifts: Someone tripped the stop "gate" at the bottom of the hill. It's basically an extension cord that spans 4-5 feet under the lift about 30-40 feet uphill from the bottom terminal. If someone catches the cord, it disconnects and stops the lift. I assume this is a safety device so if someone is dangling, the lift stops. This past weekend, something happened, and a guy lost his ski at the safety gate, and it stopped the lift. I don't know if his ski happened to come off as he went over the device, or if his ski got caught on it.

Anyways....these cords are on all(?)/most(?) of the lifts at Sunday River. But I've never really noticed them elsewhere...but I've never actually looked for them either. Is this regular practice? Curious if anyone else has noticed them...?

 

[scott43]

I've seen them before at various places but not that often. More on the older lifts.

 

[Vestirse]

Thinking about a scenario that occurred last weekend at Sunday River while I was about to load one of the lifts: Someone tripped the stop "gate" at the bottom of the hill. It's basically an extension cord that spans 4-5 feet under the lift about 30-40 feet uphill from the bottom terminal. If someone catches the cord, it disconnects and stops the lift. I assume this is a safety device so if someone is dangling, the lift stops. This past weekend, something happened, and a guy lost his ski at the safety gate, and it stopped the lift. I don't know if his ski happened to come off as he went over the device, or if his ski got caught on it.

Anyways....these cords are on all(?)/most(?) of the lifts at Sunday River. But I've never really noticed them elsewhere...but I've never actually looked for them either. Is this regular practice? Curious if anyone else has noticed them...?

I've seen them at Crystal Mountain - and the only reason I noticed was that it got tripped by a girl in the chair right in front of me who wasn't able to unload - her pole got stuck in the chair and her hand in the pole loop! Don't even want to imagine what would have happened otherwise and was glad Crystal had that safety mechanism. I took the loops off of my poles right after too - I don't use them anyway.

 

[James]

Never seen them anywhere.

 

[Smear]

It's basically an extension cord that spans 4-5 feet under the lift about 30-40 feet uphill from the bottom terminal. If someone catches the cord, it disconnects and stops the lift.

They have these on the top at Broken river. When the top wheel is at chest height it is very important to not end up with an arm on the inside of the rope/cable at the top. Has happened and the result was not good. They used just normal power cords and sockets. They needed some duct tape not to blow out of the socket in strong winds. You might have to sign a waiver or not.

 

[Sibhusky]

I think all of ours have a stick that gets tripped as you go around the bull wheel. Maybe only the non-high speed lifts though. The return side isn't as close visually with those, so I'm unsure. But I think they have it as well because I seem to remember that as I downloaded on one of them earlier this season.

But that is only for when you (don't) get off. Not on the upbound end.

Having had various things happen over the years where I ended up in the "pit" or hanging, there's nothing upwards bound here.

 

[Lauren]

I think all of ours have a stick that gets tripped as you go around the bull wheel.

I’ve definitely seen those at the top, everywhere (and had to reset plenty of them in the few years that I was a liftie), but Sunday River is the only place I’ve noticed the cord at the bottom. Though I’m not sure if it’s on all lifts there.