Need recommendations: Used vehicle for student drivers

[sparty]

Things I would avoid:
Avoid compact cars - Mazda 3 is the limit, Mazda 2 is too small, Honda Civic is the limit, Honda Fit too small (simple physics in a collision with other vehicles, the vehicle with more mass is safer for its occupants);
...

Bigger vehicles tend to be safer to crash; smaller vehicles tend to be safer to drive (more mass == more momentum at the same speed, and quickly becomes a liability if things are going pear-shaped). Also, saying "I want to put my inexperienced driver in the biggest vehicle possible to make them safer in a crash" is a bit selfish from a societal standpoint, as it transfers risk to the rest of us, and we know (statistically) that inexperience drivers are more likely than almost any other group to crash.

I saw and still see no need to inflict my kids with the handicap of not being able to bring more than one passenger, and yes small pick-em-up trucks will take some learning to control the rear-wheel drive traction, with a light rear end, handling can be problematic with the back end trying to pass the front end when slowing down around icy corners.

The potentially problematic handling is exactly what makes them an excellent (albeit getting hard-to-find) learner's vehicle. An underpowered 2WD pickup requires developing a driving skillset that most drivers lack, and it strongly encourages treating driving as an actual activity, not just as a way to get from point A to point B. In slippery conditions, RWD (and a frontward weight bias) means that you're far more likely to make things squirrelly by overenthusiastic throttle use, rather than by developing understeer entering a corner. While both are potentially terrifying on the interstate, at lower speeds on secondary roads, I'd much rather have the ass end of the vehicle kick out on corner exit than have the front end decide to continue straight on entry. Sticking with something relatively underpowered requires thinking further ahead, which is a great skill to develop for general driving safety.

And you can take two passengers in a standard cab or four in an old xtracab, it just won't be comfortable...which translates to better vehicle longevity because your friends won't designate your vehicle the road-trip chariot.

IMO, the biggest benefit of the high-performance course—or whatever other method you use to teach the same skillset, whether it be time with a parent in snowy lots, SCCA stuff, or intentionally looking the other way when they go out driving in fresh snow and come back with scuff marks on the bodywork—is that it encourages that "driving is an activity" (or even a sport) mindset. All else being equal, people who are clearly disengaged from driving and bored scare me far more than those who are trying to corner at double the advisory limits.

I'd also advocate for something cheap and near full depreciation so that, should the learning process involve crunching, scratching, or other unpleasant noises, the financial impact isn't so bad, and so that you don't feel a need to keep full coverage on the vehicle. If it needs a little more maintenance along the way, that's not entirely a bad thing—keep the kids involved so that (unlike some of my friends) they understand that there's a lot more cost to operating a motor vehicle than just putting gas in it.

Real old-fashioned standard transmissions are the best, 2nd best is regular automatics. Dual clutch transmissions are not so good if you do a lot of stop and go driving and want to keep it for a long time. CVTs are getting better, but most still have a lot of room for improvement. Don't buy a Nissan with a Jedco transmission.

Agreed 100% with the first part; I lack the experience level to answer the second part definitively.

 

[Philpug]

The potentially problematic handling is exactly what makes them an excellent (albeit getting hard-to-find) learner's vehicle. An underpowered 2WD pickup requires developing a driving skillset that most drivers lack, and it strongly encourages treating driving as an actual activity, not just as a way to get from point A to point B. In slippery conditions, RWD (and a frontward weight bias) means that you're far more likely to make things squirrelly by overenthusiastic throttle use, rather than by developing understeer entering a corner. While both are potentially terrifying on the interstate, at lower speeds on secondary roads, I'd much rather have the ass end of the vehicle kick out on corner exit than have the front end decide to continue straight on entry. Sticking with something relatively underpowered requires thinking further ahead, which is a great skill to develop for general driving safety.

Funny story here. When my son was first learning how to drive. I took him out in my Miata. Forst, amazingly enough, he got the clutch right away and didn't stall the car. Second, but the funny part, we were in a gravel parking lot. He took the corner faster than he should have and the tail end started coming around. He immediately counter steered and corrected it. I look at at him with a befuddled face and asked bim how he knew to do that, he said "Grand Theft Auto". What actually is interesting now is the amount of young F1 drivers have received a significant amount of their early training in simulators. There was a recent documentary on the Nissan team where much of their team learned on simulators. Works for airplanes, why not here.

 

[Seldomski]

4 cylinder engine.

Check out the Hertz used rental fleet. If going that route, definitely go for high reliability (i.e. Toyota).

I would not recommend a truck for the average person - traction is not good with an empty bed. There are cases though where a truck is a good fit. Trucks also tend to shrug off minor fender benders better...

I'd also recommend a full size sedan, not a civic. Corolla or Accord have more rear leg room. This room comes in handy for college carpools and schlepping things to/from campus. A decent size trunk is also good to have.

You also want something that is cheap to repair with and do body work. It will be crashed because the drivers are novices. So you want a very common vehicle so parts are readily available and mechanics are likely to be familiar with it. Your TSX wagon is not a common vehicle, so I would not recommend it.

 

[Uncle-A]

Funny story here. When my son was first learning how to drive. I took him out in my Miata. Forst, amazingly enough, he got the clutch right away and didn't stall the car. Second, but the funny part, we were in a gravel parking lot. He took the corner faster than he should have and the tail end started coming around. He immediately counter steered and corrected it. I look at at him with a befuddled face and asked bim how he knew to do that, he said "Grand Theft Auto". What actually is interesting now is the amount of young F1 drivers have received a significant amount of their early training in simulators. There was a recent documentary on the Nissan team where much of their team learned on simulators. Works for airplanes, why not here.

In one of my Technology Ed. classes my students had to use a flight simulator when the lesson was about the Bernoulli Principal the main reason a wing can lift an aircraft. They loved that part of the lesson and most of them were very good at it.

 

[RobSN]

Two thoughts, based on experience.

Firstly, make the kids pay towards the car. I used 50:50, but even 75% parents is ok. This way the kid has sweat equity in the car and is likely to be more careful with it.

Secondly, hope to find something along the lines that I found for our eldest daughter which at the time was a Toyota Paseo. I got out of it having given it a short test drive and flashed two thumbs up to my wife. She wanted to know why I was so keen on it. I replied: "It looks sporty, and it's got NO power WHATSOEVER! It's perfect!"

 

[slowrider]

My daughter just turned 19 and has a 2010 Ford Escape 2wd v6. 100,000miles.

Old enough to be cheap, not too much miles to worry and versatile enough to meet any need.

Finally, Get a dash cam!!!!

This^. Video don't lie. It keeps driving habits honest and can sort out any miss conceptions on at fault. All the trucks have them. Check your insurance coverage for a lower rate. Good drivers do not break laws. It's a matter of percentages. Eventually it will catch up with you. Ask me how I know after 4 million miles.

 

[SpikeDog]

My parents allowed me to drive a 1966 Dodge D-100 2WD with a straight 6 when I was 17. Totally underpowered, at least one broken leaf spring, ugliest shade of green ever, evil handling POS with a weightlifter clutch. Not sure what message they were sending me.

My sons had the benefit of generous grandparents, so they got to start off with a 1985 Thunderbird and a 1970 Jeepster Commando. Both were/are crappy running vehicles with no power but a certain cool factor. If I had a daughter, you can be sure I'd put her in something large and 4WD for her first vehicle.

 

[François Pugh]

@sparty I'm with you on rear-wheel drive being better than front wheel drive.
I don't see having the back end step out under too much throttle as an issue; it's easily controlled, and imho preferable to front-wheel drive under-steer, having driven many many RWD and Front wheel drive cars.

What puts me off is rear-wheel drive combined with excessive front weight bias (e.g. my old 2009 Pontiac Wave-AKA death trap, many single cab pick up trucks) on icy roads. I see a major problem arising when the new driver makes a mistake in either over-estimating the grip around that icy corner, or in under-estimating their speed. They very well could instinctively let off the throttle and go right into a trailing throttle over-steer spin-out. It (trailing throttle over-steer combined with a light rear end) is still also a problem with front wheel drive cars, but is compounded when the engine braking is applied via the rear wheels. To be safe, just avoid cars with no weight at the back end.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Her fist time out when she got her learners permit was in a super crew cab F150 and had to drive that before she was even allowed in a car. Now as a young driver she has good vehicle awareness.

Also made her change the oil on both vehicles and rotate to tires once. At least she knows how to change a tire in a pinch. The truck tires weight a ton and the torque is 150ft lbs.

I such an evil dad.

 

[slowrider]

She'll be a mechanic oldschool. Lol

 

[Uncle-A]

Her fist time out when she got her learners permit was in a super crew cab F150 and had to drive that before she was even allowed in a car. Now as a young driver she has good vehicle awareness.

Also made her change the oil on both vehicles and rotate to tires once. At least she knows how to change a tire in a pinch. The truck tires weight a ton and the torque is 150ft lbs.

I such an evil dad.

I also made my daughter change a tire, check all the fluid levels and measure the voltage of the car battery. She now owns her own compressor and can put air into a tire if needed.

 

[pete]

Her fist time out when she got her learners permit was in a super crew cab F150 and had to drive that before she was even allowed in a car. Now as a young driver she has good vehicle awareness.

Also made her change the oil on both vehicles and rotate to tires once. At least she knows how to change a tire in a pinch. The truck tires weight a ton and the torque is 150ft lbs.

I such an evil dad.

My eldest loved driving my Silverado, she's only 5-1 ish and said that it garnered her respect where-as driving my wifes Escape, people would tail gate, cut her off, etc.

My criteria for kids was anything 5 Star rated with great safety record, swapped out tires to higher rated ones, rain-x'ed windows, etc. Limited driving to lots of short trips till they had experience and avoided poor weather till they had lots more experience.

Got my youngest learning now ... she doesn't care to try the truck yet but similar to @oldschoolskier, mine willing to know about cars. She's helped change oil, change struts and disks in our Explorer, change out a front wheel hub on the Silverado and recently after I disassembled, she re-assembled the front CV axle herself short of lifting it on her own and torquing the axle nut. She initialed the inside plate of the joint on the transfer case side, she saw that the old one was initialed.

Anyhow, bragging aside, I leaned towards safety ratings being a prime consideration.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Safety Ratings are definitely a plus, sometimes perceived safety means as much or more in how a young driver develops.