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Need recommendations: Used vehicle for student drivers

Philpug

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My wife bought me a 2 day Skip Barber high performance driving course when I turned 40 years old. I went into the course thinking that I was an excellent driver. I came out of it realizing that I was a fair to good driver. Of course, everybody else still sucked.
Some Solo2 classes, autoX. Getting to push the car in a controlled environment. I took my son to a couple and it was a great help.
 

bbinder

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You know, I am not inherently against this, there is no downside to taking an advanced driving course, but for the outlay of time and money. But resources aren't unlimited, and in perspective I feel a parallel is like saying you should take an Avy1 course and carry full avy setup for resort skiing. I think some of the draw is preying on the fear of parents so you aren't getting your money's worth from these courses. Note that there is no snowy or icy roads in the Bay Area that require advanced driving..

From an economist's view the same resources could be spent on something superior that would have a higher impact for the goals. For example, there are services which use a nanny dash cam +driver cam and ODB monitor. You would upload the data periodically to the service and they will monitor and review for incidents. That would be a better use of that same money as a kid knowing they are being watched reduces poor decisions better than any class. I believe they can provide driving coaching too, and even can be setup to be private just between the service and your kid except for major incidents if you are battling over"privacy".

As far as any driver, and specifically a teenager, saying they wrecked because some maniac coming out of nowhere and made them crash... I think my first response based on personal experience of how teenagers act would be: okay


Surprised none of your karting places around you have classes or coaching. Pretty much all the modern ones I know about offer these services (being serious facilities with leagues and so on , and not just kiddie bumpercars). You might need to ask in person rather than just viewing the website. It is a lot easier and cheaper way to get some semblance of track time; and get a better feel of a car as all the modern karts are setup that you can break traction, and have to find the limits.

I understand your point about the cost/benefit ratio, but I guess that we have to agree to disagree on this. Have you ever taken any type of course like this? And you seem to keep overlooking the fact that these courses offered to new drivers in Massachusetts were free or nominal cost. I think I paid less than $100 for Daria and I seem to remember that Meryl’s was free. You can’t really beat free... As far as carting goes, I took Daria to an “arrive and drive” event a few years ago. Despite brief coaching by me and apropos of nothing, she puttered around the track as if she was driving a lawnmower...

I did look into carting at this track. The training that was available was limited to one or two weekends in the beginning of the season and involved a commitment (at least financially) for the season. The outlay of cash was not inexpensive nor was it convenient. Now if you compare carting to HPDE in terms of expense, you will get no argument from me! No doubt that carting is much cheaper than taking a car to a track and from what I understand requires skills that are quite similar to driving a race car. But FWIW, my daughters are content to drive on the street, and do not have any current desire to drive on a race track.
 

bbinder

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I stand corrected on one point: I was discussing this with my wife and she remembers that the cost was $150 for each girl. She reminded me that in Massachusetts we were able to get a discount on their car insurance because they took the course - this discount more than offset the cost of the course over time.

Marcia also reminded me that we asked Meryl 3 questions after the class. Did you have fun? Did you get anything out of the class? Are you glad you took it? The answer was yes to all three questions even though I had to drag her to the class that day.

I would go as far as recommending some similar class to any driver new or experienced. I have been driving for 50 years. Recently, I get onto a race track a few weekends a year and learn something new about my driving each event.
 

Jim Kenney

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My kids went to a private high school about one mile from our house and for the most part were shuttled to school by my wife. About 15 years ago my oldest daughter wrote an article for her high school paper about the cars that could be found in the school parking lot. There were a lot of upper-middle class kids at that school driving nice vehicles, big SUVs, late model Mercedes, Lexus, etc. But the winner of the coolest regular ride to school was someone with a Plymouth Prowler. I'm sure they were very careful and obeyed all traffic laws:ogbiggrin:

2001_2002_prowler_014.jpg
 

markojp

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Stick shift.... harder to text while driving and involves the driver in the act of, well, driving.... it's also a form of front seat birth control.... wait.. no .. it's not. But the driving and texting while driving is true.
 

JeffB

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With all the zero %/same as cash deals out there on new cars, I was toying with the idea of getting my 14 year old something soon. I’ll drive it for a year or so and then she can do all her learners permit work in that car and take it over fully when she is 16. I’ve haven’t done the math, but if you’re not a cash buyer off the used lot for many of the lower priced and reliable options mentioned in this thread, I would think the delta between late model used and new at 0% is fairly small.
 
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TS
Plai

Plai

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@bbinder would your course be https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/services/state-programs/massachusetts ?

Looking for something similar in California comes up empty:
https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/state-certified

There's a bunch of private "driver education" programs in area, but I'm not sure how to gauge them for more than "how to pass the driver's tests (on road & written)". I definitely would like something more "practical", "wisdom" oriented. I can attest that drivers in CA are kinda crazy/scary. Giving my kids opportunities to rehearse situational awareness would be ideal.
 

Ogg

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@bbinder would your course be https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/services/state-programs/massachusetts ?

Looking for something similar in California comes up empty:
https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/state-certified

There's a bunch of private "driver education" programs in area, but I'm not sure how to gauge them for more than "how to pass the driver's tests (on road & written)". I definitely would like something more "practical", "wisdom" oriented. I can attest that drivers in CA are kinda crazy/scary. Giving my kids opportunities to rehearse situational awareness would be ideal.
There's this but it's not cheap and it probably won't help your insurance rates.
 

Bad Bob

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Taught the kids to drive in a tie dyed Suburban that was the first vehicle they were turned loose in. Big safe and there was no hiding in that sucker! Then they moved to a economy stick shift to know how to actually drive. But that was then and this is now, and that was Cd'A, Idaho.

Another thumbs up for Hyundai Santa Fe or Tuscon. You can go back to 2012 and still find well engineered good value vehicles. Bluetooth and a cell phone will give them navigation.
 

Bill Miles

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My kids went to a private high school about one mile from our house and for the most part were shuttled to school by my wife. About 15 years ago my oldest daughter wrote an article for her high school paper about the cars that could be found in the school parking lot. There were a lot of upper-middle class kids at that school driving nice vehicles, big SUVs, late model Mercedes, Lexus, etc. But the winner of the coolest regular ride to school was someone with a Plymouth Prowler. I'm sure they were very careful and obeyed all traffic laws:ogbiggrin:

2001_2002_prowler_014.jpg
Reminds me of 5people in/on an Austin Healy Sprite when I was I high school.
 

bbinder

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@bbinder would your course be https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/services/state-programs/massachusetts ?

Looking for something similar in California comes up empty:
https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/state-certified

There's a bunch of private "driver education" programs in area, but I'm not sure how to gauge them for more than "how to pass the driver's tests (on road & written)". I definitely would like something more "practical", "wisdom" oriented. I can attest that drivers in CA are kinda crazy/scary. Giving my kids opportunities to rehearse situational awareness would be ideal.

No. It is this: http://www.skidschool.us/
It looks like the price has gone up since my girls (30 and 33 years old) took it. I still think that it is a decent deal
 

In2h2o

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Yes Corollas, Civic, CRV and RAV-4 or other small SUV No - Prius the visibility is not good

Agree with @SBrown on the '06 highlander. Keys to my '08 Honda Pilot handed off to my daughter last year which is similar in size to the older highlanders. Pilot has great visibility. And at 240K miles its still running strong (I might want it back when she's done with College).

Subaru Forester or Outbacks are common as are the smaller SUVs. Other parents go with the tried and true VW Jetta. Which currently have a lease offer for $169 a month.

@Plai what driving course will they be taking? Do you have the AAA 10 series course available ? They only need to take "6 hours behind the wheel" in CA to take the driving test. But the 10 series adds night and highway and a bit more time with someone other than a parent. Highly recommend.
 

Uncle-A

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When my daughter start to driving in HS we got a used Chevy small body like a Malibu it lasted up to four years of college. It would have been longer but some one hit her from behind. I had a little body work done and it gave her another year.
 

François Pugh

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Things I would avoid:
Avoid compact cars - Mazda 3 is the limit, Mazda 2 is too small, Honda Civic is the limit, Honda Fit too small (simple physics in a collision with other vehicles, the vehicle with more mass is safer for its occupants);
Avoid cars with small displacement gasoline direct injection engines combined with turbo chargers even if they are made by Toyota or Honda (actually less trouble if you avoid both);
Avoid cars that have engines with timing chain driven water pumps (e.g. a lot of Ford V6s, Subaru V6s, lots of Nissans - Water pumps wear out and eventually leak. Changing out one of those internal water pumps is expen$ive, and if you don't do it in time you can kiss your engine goodbye.
Nothing wrong with Lexus or Acura other than the price, but I would avoid Infinity for a long-term vehicle. Same story for Honda Pilot or larger Toyota SUVs, just expensive.

I saw and still see no need to inflict my kids with the handicap of not being able to bring more than one passenger, and yes small pick-em-up trucks will take some learning to control the rear-wheel drive traction, with a light rear end, handling can be problematic with the back end trying to pass the front end when slowing down around icy corners.

Real old-fashioned standard transmissions are the best, 2nd best is regular automatics. Dual clutch transmissions are not so good if you do a lot of stop and go driving and want to keep it for a long time. CVTs are getting better, but most still have a lot of room for improvement. Don't buy a Nissan with a Jedco transmission.
 

Uncle-A

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I tend to agree with "don't buy a Nissan" it was the worst mechanical car I ever owned. I purchased it brand new and it gave me so much trouble.
 

raytseng

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@bbinder would your course be https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/services/state-programs/massachusetts ?

Looking for something similar in California comes up empty:
https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/state-certified

There's a bunch of private "driver education" programs in area, but I'm not sure how to gauge them for more than "how to pass the driver's tests (on road & written)". I definitely would like something more "practical", "wisdom" oriented. I can attest that drivers in CA are kinda crazy/scary. Giving my kids opportunities to rehearse situational awareness would be ideal.
All these (relatively) cheaper "courses" options I do not believe will have behind the wheel experiences so you may need to judge the effectiveness of that format of knowledge transfer.
i think an option to throw out that if you find an in car driving instructor whose personality and methodology you agree with for the license requirement, then pay for more hours beyond what is required for the license and ask them to go over specific defensive driving topics again (which they should already be doing).

To go back to the ski analogy it'd be like just getting a private lesson and asking the instructor to focus on general safety rather than signing up for an avy1 course.
Don't get me wrong if you do want to do that course or other courses go for it, I have absolutely no beef with getting more knowledge and education
 
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noncrazycanuck

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i'm probably not in the majority but I specifically bought a couple of cars so my daughters had to pass their driver license on a standard transmission.
they certainly didn't like it initially but can drive anything anywhere and they are now very happy they can.
have always felt if you can't even drive a stick shift you really don't rate a license.
There are a lot of places in the world that a manual transmission is the only option at the rental booth, and always being able to drive someone else's car if needed will get you home.
 

Uncle-A

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i'm probably not in the majority but I specifically bought a couple of cars so my daughters had to pass their driver license on a standard transmission.
they certainly didn't like it initially but can drive anything anywhere and they are now very happy they can.
have always felt if you can't even drive a stick shift you really don't rate a license.
There are a lot of places in the world that a manual transmission is the only option at the rental booth, and always being able to drive someone else's car if needed will get you home.
I agree that knowing how to drive a stick shift is important. My daughter can drive a four on the floor as well as the automatic transmission. After our Chevy gave out she picked up the small Acura with a five speed, it was a little sporty and had good gas mileage. She had way over 200K on it when it finally gave up the ghosts. She now has a bigger Acura but it is an automatic transmission. I think it is funny but her boyfriend can't drive a stick shift and she can.
 

Muleski

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Our kids are in their thirties, so that's first cars are ancient history. Our son's first was a 4X4 Ford Ranger with a stick. It was great because it felt like it was going to fall apart at about 50 mph. When he graduated from HS, he got a Tacoma, V6, stick, which he drove for another 250K miles. He's about to buy a new Ford truck, and it will be his first vehicle ever without a stick. Our daughter's was a 2002 Outback H6 VDC. Perfect car. Lad to an Outback XT, and now an Alltrack.

We have a number of younger nieces and nephews. All skiers. Two have first generation Highlanders, with the top level trim and the V6. They seem bulletproof, and they fit the bill. I would highly recommend an older one. One has a second generation Honda Pilot. She loves it and takes great care of it. That will get here through college and beyond. One of the guys has an Acura TSX sedan, with the V6 and six speed. That is perhaps more car than I'd put a new driver in. But it was a lot of car for the money and is super reliable. And with four studded snows, pretty decent in the winter. He wanted a V6 Accord coupe with a six-speed. Nope. Dad is too smart for that!

We have a neighbor who gave their son their Audi A6 2.7T a few years ago and he totaled it on the first night. Hit a tree with the REAR end, after a spin. Dry road. He claimed the mysterious "deer in the road". The car got away from him. I've seen this before with a few hand me downs to new drivers that were too much. We know another brand new driver who is now driving dad's old Audi S4 Avant. It's problematic, IMO. Another friend just bought a CooperS, JCW model, with some modifications for a 17 year old. They could not say no to the kid. They gave him a budget, but did not exercise veto power on the car. That car could be a problem.

Thumbs up on the Highlanders, Pilots, and based on some exposure Kia and Hyundai. Very reliable.
 

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