Michelin X-ice Xi3 vs Nokian R3 SUV??

[eok]

We've been using a set of Michelin X-ice Xi3s on our Subaru Forester for 3 winters now. The 1st two winters they were pretty good. But by last winter, tread depth was right at the limit (using a quarter, just at the top of Washington's head) and towards the end of winter it seemed snow & ice traction had really diminished. So we knew we'd need a new set next winter.

This might sound like premature wear but it really isn't (for us) because over those three years we had to drive a few very long springtime trips south from the PNW, looping through northern & southern California (lots of miles on hot & dry roads). I know, I know: "why didn't you swap to the street tires for those trips?". Well, because the PNW (central Oregon) has been getting snow in early (even mid) spring the last few years.

So, I'm considering just getting a new set of Xi3s or going for the Nokian R3s. Both studless. I already know what to expect from the Xi3s. They're pretty good - or 'excellent" if you consider they are a studless snow tire.

But, I'm, also considering laying down the extra $$$ to try the Nokian R3s. From what reviews/tests I could find, the R3s have a bit better traction than the Xi3s. Particularly better cornering traction in ice and better traction in the wet (for us, Xi3 wet traction was just "OK").

Anyone been on the Xi3s and R3s?

 

[EricG]

Here’s my 2 cents based on our Nokian & Michelin experience on our 16 Forester.

Deep snow - the R3 is noticeably better
Ice/hard-pack - Very similar. The R3 may have been more predictable.
Wet Roads & slush - R3
Dry roads - Xi3 slightly

Needless to say we now run the Nokian Hakka 9 studded. The R3 wasn’t quite enough fir the amount of hard-pack slick roads we drive and our steep twisty driveway. The Xi3 couldn’t deal with our unplowed roads and driveway.

 

[eok]

...
Needless to say we now run the Nokian Hakka 9 studded. The R3 wasn’t quite enough fir the amount of hard-pack slick roads we drive and our steep twisty driveway. The Xi3 couldn’t deal with our unplowed roads and driveway.

Thanks!

We're trying to avoid studs, but I have heard so many good reports from locals about studded Nokians.

The two reasons we like studless snow tires:

• We get to use them after the date folks have to remove their studded tires here in April (we still often get a good amount of snow on the mountain roads in April).
• We don't want to contribute to wearing out the roads here. It's a growing problem here due to the increased growth.

 

[Ken_R]

I used the Nokian Hakkas 8 SUV (no studs) this past season and they were amazing. They are a tad more refined than the Blizzak DM-V2's I have on the other subbie. But the Blizzaks are a touch better in deep snow, off road. I do most driving on i70 and 285 so the extra refinement at highway speeds is nice. It is not a huge difference though. I am happy with both tires.

I say if you liked the Xice3's why not just get another set.

Forget about studded tires. Unless you live in the Mtns the much increased N.V.H. is not worth it. For mostly highway travel the studless tires are the best.

 

[EricG]

Thanks!

We're trying to avoid studs, but I have heard so many good reports from locals about studded Nokians.

The two reasons we like studless snow tires:

• We get to use them after the date folks have to remove their studded tires here in April (we still often get a good amount of snow on the mountain roads in April).
• We don't want to contribute to wearing out the roads here. It's a growing problem here due to the increased growth.

I 100% agree. You need to cater the tire to how it’s being used. I wanted to stay stud-less, but my road conditions & driveway dictated other options. I put our studded tires on once we really need them. Otherwise our cars wear All Weather tires. The Forester uses the Nokian WGR3 the rest of the year, this way we get acceptable winter traction for early & late snow, but don’t waste the studs/damage the road.

 

[François Pugh]

Here’s my 2 cents based on our Nokian & Michelin experience on our 16 Forester.

Deep snow - the R3 is noticeably better
Ice/hard-pack - Very similar. The R3 may have been more predictable.
Wet Roads & slush - R3
Dry roads - Xi3 slightly

Needless to say we now run the Nokian Hakka 9 studded. The R3 wasn’t quite enough fir the amount of hard-pack slick roads we drive and our steep twisty driveway. The Xi3 couldn’t deal with our unplowed roads and driveway.

I have had similar experience. Nokians on Mazda 3 for 2 winters . Stock no seasons 1st winter (3 months only) . X ice 3 on many cars many winters, x ice 2 before that.
Slush and snow - no question R3 wins hands down.
Ice tie
Wet pavement x ice by a nose.
Dry pavement x ice - no contest
The Nokians cost more considering the ware rate.

 

[François Pugh]

What finally drove me to the Hakkas was asking myself what I was buying winter tires for. The answer was not wet and dry pavement.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Why no Bridgestone Blizzak WS-80 on the list? My go to Winter tires since the early 90's.

To the OP, you went a year too long before replacement. If they are anywhere near the snow bar wear limit don't cut corners, just mount up a new set! They are almost half the cost of good summer tires so keep them fresh so they can work as designed.

 

[Tom K.]

No argument with the comments above. Nokians by a nose if you prioritize the winter part of the equation. Michelins if the reverse.

I'll add that the Hokey Pokeys seem to have a better feel to me at their limit in the snow. It's a gradual breakaway.

 

[tball]

Forget about studded tires. Unless you live in the Mtns the much increased N.V.H. is not worth it. For mostly highway travel the studless tires are the best.

Disagree. The downside to good factory studded tires is just the noise.

At higher speeds on the highway is where studs shine. During an emergency stop or avoidance in winter conditions, you need every advantage you can get. Studs give you a considerable advantage, and higher speeds magnify that advantage.

The whole idea of worrying about studs wearing out the roads vs. one's safety seems ridiculous to me. Oregon should be encouraging driver to use the best tires. The cost of maintaining the roads is minuscule compared to the personal and financial cost of accidents.

 

[cantunamunch]

Disagree. The downside to good factory studded tires is just the noise.

It's also possible @Ken_R has a suspension that filters less than yours does.

 

[scott43]

It's also possible @Ken_R has a suspension that filters less than yours does.

Full frame vs unit body...I was hacking around in a pick-up for a few days and man, you just can't beat the isolation and quietness of body-on-frame..

 

[cantunamunch]

Full frame vs unit body...I was hacking around in a pick-up for a few days and man, you just can't beat the isolation and quietness of body-on-frame..

Land Rover are betting the other way - they just released the first monocoque Defender in ever.

 

[tball]

In terms of the NVH of studs, it's really just Noise. There's no additional vibration or harshness compared to the same tires without studs.

Studs are noisy even in an otherwise quiet vehicle, but I think they are worth it for additional safety when the conditions warrant.

I've got X-ice on two vehicles that spend most their time in Denver and studded Hakkas on the third that is our primary ski vehicle.

Here's a good perspective on to stud or not from a Nokian guy:

 

[Ken_R]

Disagree. The downside to good factory studded tires is just the noise.

At higher speeds on the highway is where studs shine. During an emergency stop or avoidance in winter conditions, you need every advantage you can get. Studs give you a considerable advantage, and higher speeds magnify that advantage.

The whole idea of worrying about studs wearing out the roads vs. one's safety seems ridiculous to me. Oregon should be encouraging driver to use the best tires. The cost of maintaining the roads is minuscule compared to the personal and financial cost of accidents.

Oh yeah, from a performance aspect in winter conditions the studded tires are the best. But on long, dry, highway stretches the noise is REALLY bothersome at least to me. Maybe in more expensive vehicles that have a lot of noise insulation its no so bad. In the northeast I would go studded since it gets icy AF!

Regarding wearing out the roads

 

[EricG]

Companies like Nokian who provide factory studded tires have actually been working with some EU rules and updating stud design to reduce road surface damage. I’ll try to find the article.

 

[Sinecure]

I've been running the X-Ice for a number of years now. Good performance in a mixed driving situation. I've lived in Bay Area and driven to Tahoe every week. Its been a geat tire until, like you've experienced - the third season when they start to go off. When I move to Tahoe full time, I'm really debating studded vs studless and what to get. Everyone loves their Nokians. Maybe I'll try some studs for a couple seasons and see if the noise makes me nuts. I do have two sets of wheels and a floor jack so I guess I could go back and forth if we're about to get a big dump in April or May and I've already gone back to no season stock tires. Also about to get a new Scooby Do Outback.

 

[James]

Disagree. The downside to good factory studded tires is just the noise.

At higher speeds on the highway is where studs shine. During an emergency stop or avoidance in winter conditions, you need every advantage you can get. Studs give you a considerable advantage, and higher speeds magnify that advantage.

The whole idea of worrying about studs wearing out the roads vs. one's safety seems ridiculous to me. Oregon should be encouraging driver to use the best tires. The cost of maintaining the roads is minuscule compared to the personal and financial cost of accidents.

Are you familiar with this articlefrom Outside?
https://www.outsideonline.com/2359001/studded-tires-winter-car-prep

He's warning us as a "psa" against studded tires. But his studies cited are either 18 years old or 24 years old. Presumably when studs were the old stick em in at the tire shop variety.

 

[eok]

Well, I decided to stick with the X-ices & ordered a new set today. Our first set served us pretty well the last few winters both in town (we get snow) and on mountain roads. So we're just going to stick with what we know works for our needs.

If/when we get a 2nd AWD vehicle then I'll probably put studded tires on it for winters and put studless (or winter worthy all seasons) on the other vehicle. That would give us the kind of flexibility I'd like to have.

Anyway, to all that responded here: thanks for the feed back. VERY useful stuff.

 

[EricG]

I'll add that the Hokey Pokeys seem to have a better feel to me at their limit in the snow. .

Your doing the hokey pokey in the snow? How much scotch involved?