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Metasaralgia, skiing and ski boots

Black Dog

Its all downhill from here..
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Just eat lots of sugar pie with maple syrup, pile on the french fries, candy, candy, candy, don't forget Pepsi to go with that. You'll get type 2 diabetes and your feet will go numb. :ogbiggrin: You might have to deal with some balance issues though.
My gout was cause by an over indulgence of shellfish while in Italy. Never had it before then in 66 years and have not had it since it cleared up.

https://www.webmd.com/arthritis/ss/slideshow-gout-diet
 
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Smear

Getting off the lift
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Mar 15, 2016
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Just eat lots of sugar pie with maple syrup, pile on the french fries, candy, candy, candy, don't forget Pepsi to go with that. You'll get type 2 diabetes and your feet will go numb. :ogbiggrin: You might have to deal with some balance issues though.
Well, this is scary close to what has happened the days in the last few weeks I'm left inside feeling sorry for myself. In addition to diabetes risk, putting even more weight on those poor feet and not good for general inflammation level. Have to stop doing that....

I have normal uric acid levels and I got a gout attack. My first was after 15 day of skiing in the Dolomites.
Based on my feet, pain profile and history, the foot and ankle chiro seems very sure this is not gout related. But I guess there is a reason why patients should not be relying on interpretating their lab results on their own. So will see what the GP says in a month or so...
 
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Smear

Getting off the lift
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The 400$ corrective insoles arrived two days ago. They don't have a lot of arch support, but do have a massive metatarsal pad that tapers forward into a forefoot posting and a really deep 1th ray cutout. The insole is ~5mm thicker close to the cutout than at the cutout.

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First day I had to stop after a few hours because they felt to intense. Second day they are feeling better and I'm really hopeful that these will help. They take a lot of load off the painful 1. metatarsal head.

But these are so thick that there is no way I can get them to fit into my XC ski racing boots or in my road cycling shoes. That's kind of sad because those are situations where I'm in risk of overuse problems. For road cycling I've kind of just accepted numb feet on long rides. Perhaps I will order soles with ~30-40% less correction and those will also be have to be cut more since the insoles my "performance shoes" are much narrower and shorter than in everyday shoes or hiking boots.

On @Noodler's (?) single foot balance test with or without insoles these fail miserably. Going inside, it feels like falling off a cliff and there is no big toe to rescue. But pain is also a really bad thing for performance. Felt like I skied really well before Christmas, but it started to turn shit long before the pain reached crippling levels. Thinking that the body will subconsciously adjust if putting pressure on the big toe or everting the foot inside the boot is starting to get a little bit painful.

The cutout we made under the 1. metatarsal head in the Lange Z boots are much much more subtle, and I believe that is a good thing. Think these corrective insoles would be very strange for skiing if I had boots that could accommodate them.

Starting to listen to reason and have not skied in 5 days. Felt horrible to not ski the first days, but then I get used to being inactive scarily fast. Not convinced this is a good thing....
 
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Smear

Getting off the lift
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MR showed bone marrow edema on both of the sesamoid bones. The medial one is either bipartite from birth or it’s a very old not healed non union fracture. Not possible to tell from the pictures.
MR_crop1.png
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Spent last 4 weeks with as little activity on feet as possible except for doing the foot exercises. First week mostly in bed/couch due to a nasty virus. That helped and pain walking/standing during minimal daily activities like walking 10 min to work went away. And continuing to rest (vs skiing 4 days a week normally) during the rest of the 3 weeks felt like it was the right thing to do. Was starting to think I’m might be taking this resting thing to seriously, but kept on track.

Then I tried skiing a little bit this weekend since arranging a training camp for our ski club. Skiing for 1 hour the first day was ok, but after 2 hours on the second day it ended in unbearable pain. And now the pain during the minimal activity like the 10 min walks is back… So 4 week of rest had not made any noticeable difference.

We always celebrate Easter Norwegian style with a 10 days holiday with alpine skiing, xc-skiing or back country touring most days at our family cabin in the west coast mountain range. This year that seems highly unlikely. I’m usually the one dragging the rest of family of 4 out, so not sure how our family will function when I’m not able to ski with them.

Have made another set of expensive insoles made with reverse morton’s extension and metatarsal pad that are much lower than the first ones, have cut them down and are able to fit these into my XC-skiing boots, cycling shoes and AT-boots. Unfortunately, I tried skiing in the alpine boots instead this weekend since I really hate skiing in the AT-boots due to poor alignment. Might have made a difference, so a bad decision…

According to family, I am impossible to live with when I am not able to ski, bike and be physically active and they are probably right. Head in a very bad spot at the moment…
 

Bruno Schull

Getting off the lift
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Hi Smear,

I'm writing because it seems like this is really getting you down. So, first I want to just empathize. I get it. Like you, I'm addicted to cycling, climbing, skiing, hiking, and so on. I need regular vigorous exercise, or I'm a completely different person.

I have also dealt with many operations and injuries over the years, including three knee surgeries (two on one knee, one on the other knee), one ankle surgery, and two foot surgeries (one on each foot).

Here are some hard won lessons.

1-In some sense, we are all adaptive athletes. I don't want to minimize the astonishing accomplishments of real adaptive athletes, like the people who compete at the para olympics, but as we get older, if we want to be athletic, we all need to adapt. For example, I got through a whole season of ice climbing with a broken finger--I just taped my fingers together, changed how I held my ice tool, modified my technique, and accepted my limitations. Or, whenever I have lower leg injuries, I do a huge amount of core work. Or, when I had a hernia surgery, I wrapped a towel around my waist, and did ankle, hand, and shoulder mobility stuff! There is a great deal of fulfillment that comes from not giving up, doing your best, and staying active, even if it's not perfect, or the same as you could do before (I'm 51).

2-Stay active. Don't stop. Consistency is sustainable. Binge and purge exercise is not. The best way to get real exercise with a lower leg injury is with Concept Ski Erg. Stand in one position or sit down. It feels great and you can get the endorphin boost and mind clearing effect that you need. Running in a swimming pool with an Aqua Jogger is also great. You can get a ridiculously intense low impact workout.

3-Embrace recovery, streching, balance work, tissue work, yoga, Tai Chi, and stuff like that as real exercise. Invest in these things, and your body be much healthier. You will become a better athlete.

4-You should do whatever you need to limit the pain while doing the sports you love. Basically, why are you in tight road cycling shoes, tight alpine race boots, and tight XC boots? Get a pair of Sidi Mega road shoes, or wear wide gravel or mountain bike shoes with softer soles and SPD pedals. Before you dismiss this advice, ask yourself what's worse. Riding on the road with mountain bike shoes and SPD pedals, or not riding at all? Likewise, get some wider, softer, alpine boots for skiing. Yes, the performance will not be the same, but I think you will ski much better in looser more comfortable ski boots with no pain than in tight race boots with pain. Perhaps consider something like at Atomic Prime with the liner molded to make space for your metatarsals. For XC skiing, try a pair of the Fischer backcountry boots--they are wider and more comfortable than regular XC boots. Weight doesn't matter. If you are pain free you will perform.

5-The insole industry is full of ridiculous claims and hype. It borders on fraud. I read a peer reviewed study that compared off-the-shelf insoles to the most expensive physical therapist and medical doctor created insoles, and found no differences in injury prevention or pain relief. I reached the same conclusion over the last thirty years of buying insoles, spending litterally thosands of dollars. Use what feels comfortable. You are the best judge of what's best. Perhaps could buy a range insoles, from 20$ insoles to 200 $ insoles. Thick, thin, high arch, low arch, soft, hard, etc. Use them, cut them, modify them, experiment. Find what works and reduces pain.

OK, rant over.

Good luck!

Bruno
 
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Smear

Getting off the lift
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Thanks for kind and wise words Bruno.

Lots of obligations and stuff related to skiing at the moment, so very little energy or time to partake in any non-skiing related activities. So I’m just left on foot on snow or in the lodge while others get to ski, and that takes a lot of the enjoyment out of things. Will improve after mid-April or so when organized ski season ends.

But in theory I wholeheartedly agree with the importance of finding alternative activities when the preferred stuff is not possible. A few years ago I broke the collar bone in a mountain bike crash. Spent a lot of time on the indoor trainer in the following weeks, in the beginning with the arm in a sling, and had better FTP after rehab than before the crash :) Had some sub acromial pain issues (on the other shoulder) 2 years ago that kept me from cycling and did weight strength training for 2 hours every other day for 12 weeks before being able to cycle again. My body would probably be a lot more robust if would be able to keep just a part of that routine, but that didn’t happen…

Your post did have some impact on me. Went to the gym for 1 hour after work today, even though I really, really, really didn’t want to. First time since October. Felt sick and unwell by just trying to get ready. But pushed through and it felt good in the end. Motivation comes by doing the work, does not need to be there before starting. We used to have a skierg, but it’s gone due to some rearrangements. The regular concept2 rower did work, I have poor technique so not much pressure on the feet ;-)
You should do whatever you need to limit the pain while doing the sports you love. Basically, why are you in tight road cycling shoes, tight alpine race boots, and tight XC boots? Get a pair of Sidi Mega road shoes, or wear wide gravel or mountain bike shoes with softer soles and SPD pedals. Before you dismiss this advice, ask yourself what's worse. Riding on the road with mountain bike shoes and SPD pedals, or not riding at all? Likewise, get some wider, softer, alpine boots for skiing. Yes, the performance will not be the same, but I think you will ski much better in looser more comfortable ski boots with no pain than in tight race boots with pain. Perhaps consider something like at Atomic Prime with the liner molded to make space for your metatarsals. For XC skiing, try a pair of the Fischer backcountry boots--they are wider and more comfortable than regular XC boots. Weight doesn't matter. If you are pain free you will perform.
You are probably right that I should avoid any tight-fitting boots/shoes in the current situation. Trying with the alpine boots this weekend was a mistake. Have some Intuition-liners to remold and a plan with two pairs of AT-boots, one of them with DIN-soles and a wide and roomy fit.

Have not tried cycling yet, but willing to try everything from midfoot cleat position to platform pedals to make that work. Have 7 pairs of cycling shoes and the road racing ones are I guess the ones that are least likely to work.
 

ted

Getting off the lift
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Jan 23, 2016
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How is your ankle dorsiflexion. Your symptoms scream of limited ankle dorsiflexion.
 
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Smear

Getting off the lift
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How is your ankle dorsiflexion. Your symptoms scream of limited ankle dorsiflexion.
I believe that I have good range of dorsiflexion, the Lange boots do not have massive forward lean, are stiff certainly stiff enough and I do not use the spoiler. But I do have big calves… And I tend to drag the outside foot behind on the bottom half of the turns…

The foot and ankle chiropractor did notice that my dorsiflexion and pronation ROM was less on the affected leg. He did some joint manipulations to try to remedy that, but I don’t expect a few sessions with that to have a long-lasting effect. When asked he said that I could/should work on improving the dorsiflexion ROM, but also said that the stretches for that tend to load the ball of the foot, so I should be careful with that while it’s still inflamed and painful.

So I’m aware that this could be an issue, and plan on using the AT-boots in their most upright position, even though that sucks bad when using them with alpine bindings with flat delta. Both pairs of AT-boots are much, much softer than the Langes, so fear that I will over flex them and load the ball of the foot if I keep them in the most forward position.
 

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