Let's Talk Kitchen Knives & Sharpening

[Tony S]

I had an epiphany the other day. I spend an order of magnitude more time in the kitchen than I do skiing. And yet my ski budget is an order of magnitude bigger than my budget for kitchen gear. What's wrong with this picture? (I know: "Nothing!")

Specifically I was thinking about knives. I have mostly cheap knives. Average age maybe ... 6 or 8 years? Without the divorce it would be more like 15. (She got many of the knives, including, somehow, the full carbon steel Sabatier chef's knife from about 1978 that was my mom's.) Why? Why so cheap in such an important area? Dunno.

Anyway, my latest purchase - in the wake of this - was not cheap. It's the Japanese utility knife toward the left in the photo. I love the up-tilted handle. The blade shape, light weight, and thin steel is wonderful for delicate work, such as mincing shallots, garlic, and herbs. It's so new that I don't yet have a sense for the edge. It came sharp out of the box, but not stupid sharp. It's a western double bevel. In fact it's from Henkels' Japanese arm, so half western, I suppose.

Next to it, with the blue handle, is a Misen utility knife. It's pretty young too - maybe two years old. Almost identical in size, it has a totally different feel. More power, less finesse, LOL! I like both a lot. The chef's knives get less use since I got these.

The Buck filet knife on the far right has a special place in my heart. It was my dad's. It's very very good at what it does, right down to the sticky rubber handle. I only use it about once a month, but I'm so glad I have it on those occasions.

The Forschner boning knife gets a surprising amount of use. It's a great design and sharpens well, like all its brand mates IME.

 

[crosscountry]

I love a sharp knife.

I must have been super lucky. My knives aren't too expensive (picked up in a garage sale). It's sharp, and stay sharp. Don't remember when was the last time I had to sharpen any of them.

Got into an argument about serrated knives. I said who needs serrated knives when one gets a set that are so sharp it cut right through animal tendons like it was butter!

 

[Philpug]

@Tommyboy is a knife sharpener.

 

[zircon]

Oooh, say more about this Japanese utility knife, please. It looks extremely useful for small mincing jobs, which I'm finding is a gap in my knife quiver. That and a good Chinese style vegetable cleaver.

I've been thinking about my knife collection recently as well. Mine's mostly gifted through college. A couple of small Cuisinart knives—paring and short serrated—and a ceramic utility knife knife that's a little to fragile for most jobs. My go-to for most jobs is the Misen chef's knife which I feel is on the finesse-y side of Euro chef's knives. Definitely more so than the super cheap Henckel maybe ~12 years old that feels better for big jobs like taking apart a butternut squash. Last (and least) is a Wusthof bread knife that I keep wanting to love, but don't. But it was expensive! So I have to like it. Casually in the market for one with a less toothy more scalloped edge.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I sharpen my knives regularly, those that have never used them generally end up with cuts because they are so sharp.

 

[Plai]

I got into home sharpening during the last year+, due to ...
Anyways, I got tired of paying for sharpening, so got this at a local shop...


I'm still a newbie at this, but it's not hard. Only use it a couple times a year...

As for knives, nothing exotic here.... The workhorse in the house is a Victorinox Fibrox Pro Chef's Knife. Well rated by both Cook's Illustrated and Bon Appetit Kitchen. Have other more expensive knives, but this cheap one just feels right.

https://a.co/d/966A31u

Also, a diamond steel is essential. Cheap and will recenter (straighten) an edge (burr) in no time.

 

[James]

Stones-

Sharpening Stones

We're not completely sure but we think we now have the largest selection of sharpening stones on the face of the earth. If you're interested in something and don't see it here please contact us and we'll try to get it. Most of the stones you see here are Japanese water stones, both synthetic and...

www.chefknivestogo.com

For the Naniwa Chosera, the non professional are considered more desireable. I forget the ins and outs, been a few years. The current “Professional” are the “New Chosera”.
Really hard stones don’t give good feedback to the sharpener on what’s going on. Look for stones with great feedback.

Here’s the old Chosera- love the 400 and 800 (only have a heinous amazon link) That small square block makes a nice slurry and helps flatten the stones.

This guy is good to talk to about knives-

Our Story

Welcome to Japanese Knife Imports, Inc. We started as a small company... pretty much just a husband and wife team. We still are a small group of passionate knife dorks doing our best to educate people about Japan's rich culture and history, and the awesome knives they make. Our goal is to make...

www.japaneseknifeimports.com

Haven’t looked recently, but he had a nice tub system for sharpening.

The Murray Carter video is good. Highly recommend. Don’t get the second one though, not worth it. He really needs to reshoot them at this point. His rant on jigs is priceless.


This guy had good instruction:
Peter Nowlan - has a bunch of videos.


Murray’s angle talk, why freehand sharpening, and minor jig rant-

Note- I see now that he’s put his Sharpening Fundamentals video online for free. Highly recommended. I think it used to be $30-40

 

[Alexzn]

Well... if we are bragging...This is a part of the collection that gets the most use. All Japanese-made. The one on the right and the one on the board are in my opinion, the finest current mass production kitchen knives. The Zwilling-Kramer Euro line is a generally faithful copy of Bob Kramer design that now sells for tens of thousands of $$$, and most important it uses the same steel: 52100 carbon steel that is one of the best kitchen knife steels. It is carbon, so it is really easy to sharpen, but it is reactive, so you cannot leave the knife wet and have to take care of it. But it is sublime in use. If you don't care for carbon steel, the knife on the right is the Miyabi Black, which is a premium line for Maybe (also owned by Zwilling). There the star is the edge steel (ZDP-189) and a very pretty burl wood handle. That knife is stainless, and the steel is opposite of 52100- very tough to sharpen, it feels like glass on the stones. But if you persist, the durability and sharpness is very impressive. The one next to it is a typical Japanese gyuto (chef knife) with Aogami Blue #2 carbon edge ands of iron cladding. Even more reactive than the Kramer, but really good and perhaps outperforms all other knives I have, a true all-arounder. All are not cheap (although they go on sale semi-regularly in outlet stores), but as in skis you get what you pay for. Bonus info: The plain stainless one is Misono UX10- the knife you often see in professional kitchens. No frills stamped stainless blade from Sandvik (Swedish) steel, but amazing performer and super reliable. All of these will run circles around Fibrox knives (which by the way is a great knife and a truly amazing value).

Whatever you get, get the waterstonesa nd learn how to sharpen. It is easier than sharpening the ski edges and takes away less specialized tools. In fact, you just need a combination waterstone, a sink and some patience. And there is probably nothing you can do to a knife that is not fixable with elbow grease and proper technique.

If you get the bug, japensechefknives.com is a very good source for Japanese cutlery from pretty cheap to quite high end (look up honiyaki blade prices, those are astronomical when you deal with the real stuff).

And just for kicks, here is what Bob Kramer is making today (I stole that image from a website, I cannot afford a real Kramer, not even close). This is art rather a kitchen tool (even though I am guessing the blade is still amazing). But that kind of object costs 10s of thousands of dollars (these are real damascus patterns, folded and forged steel!), so I doubt anyone would ever cuts tomatoes with it. Ever. Enjoy.

 

[KevinF]

I have a small collection of Wusthof knives. I spent some time earlier this year sharpening mine and my girlfriend's knives (which were horrifically dull).

I've tried using whetstones but found it was difficult to get a consistent angle the whole length of the blade so I went with an Edge Pro kit which gets them stupidly sharp.

 

[Tony S]

Stones-

Sharpening Stones

We're not completely sure but we think we now have the largest selection of sharpening stones on the face of the earth. If you're interested in something and don't see it here please contact us and we'll try to get it. Most of the stones you see here are Japanese water stones, both synthetic and...

www.chefknivestogo.com

For the Naniwa Chosera, the non professional are considered more desireable. I forget the ins and outs, been a few years. The current “Professional” are the “New Chosera”.
Really hard stones don’t give good feedback to the sharpener on what’s going on. Look for stones with great feedback.

Here’s the old Chosera- love the 400 and 800 (only have a heinous amazon link) That small square block makes a nice slurry and helps flatten the stones.

This guy is good to talk to about knives-

Our Story

Welcome to Japanese Knife Imports, Inc. We started as a small company... pretty much just a husband and wife team. We still are a small group of passionate knife dorks doing our best to educate people about Japan's rich culture and history, and the awesome knives they make. Our goal is to make...

www.japaneseknifeimports.com

Haven’t looked recently, but he had a nice tub system for sharpening.

The Murray Carter video is good. Highly recommend. Don’t get the second one though, not worth it. He really needs to reshoot them at this point. His rant on jigs is priceless.


This guy had good instruction:
Peter Nowlan - has a bunch of videos.


Murray’s angle talk, why freehand sharpening, and minor jig rant-

Note- I see now that he’s put his Sharpening Fundamentals video online for free. Highly recommended. I think it used to be $30-40

I was hoping to get some posts like this. Thanks.

 

[Tony S]

say more about this Japanese utility knife

Not much more to say. It probably pays to go to a store with a good selection and actually handle the knives. There are so many variations out there that you might as well choose what feels good to your physiology and even, I suppose, sense of aesthetics.

(Honestly this whole epiphany I had about my very pedestrian knife collection was triggered partly by going into a long-standing local store that has a very good knife selection. I was actually going in to replace a coffee carafe. I looked at the knife wall and was suddenly struck by how strange it was that I'd always treated economy as a top priority when buying a knife. It was a habit formed thirty-five years ago when I had no money, but now in my late middle age I can afford a middle priced knife when I need one.)

One thing I do like about this particular one is the subtle sheep's foot tendency at the tip of the blade. I use the edge right up to the very tip when, for example, mincing a shallot. (On a knife with a classic chef's knife shape, it's very awkward to use the actual tip, because you have to lift the handle so high, and because the low height of the blade at the very tip doesn't encourage a straight cut.)

a Wusthof bread knife that I keep wanting to love, but don't.

Funny how that happens with kitchen stuff. It's good to know when you're not clicking.

 

[cantunamunch]

Quick Q: Anyone in this thread know a (JP)? waterstone brand with a logo that looks like a hippo at waterline doing a Churchill Victory sign?

 

[Tony S]

Quick Q: Anyone in this thread know a (JP)? waterstone brand with a logo that looks like a hippo at waterline doing a Churchill Victory sign?

This may win the prize for the quintessential summertime post.

 

[cantunamunch]

This may win the prize for the quintessential summertime post.

Hey, his birthday is coming up and he loves those

 

[scott43]

I'm struggling right now I'll admit..

 

[Jersey Skier]

Anyone ever reshape a knife? My wife broke the tip off of our largest Henkel.

I've done it to my Benchmade with the grinder in my shop, but that resides in my pocket and doesn't need to look pretty.

 

[zircon]

Funny how that happens with kitchen stuff. It's good to know when you're not clicking.

We see it all the time with people and their skis, but somehow that's different. When you're cheating on your good knife with one you picked up or $8 at Whole Foods, maybe it's time to take that ski forum advice and pass it on to a loving thrift shop.

Going to go on an adventure to the local kitchen shop later this week for some sharpening anyway. Time to start a 'Tony S is an enabler' thread?

 

[James]

Wusthof used to have a factory outlet in CT. It was a real “outlet” with seconds and odd stuff. The people in there really knew the product too. I got a knife made for Le Cordon Bleu. Instead of the usual bolster where you can’t hand sharpen it, it had no bolster down to the cutting edge, so students could use a stone.


I think Covid closed it and may not come back.

Anyone ever reshape a knife? My wife broke the tip off of our largest Henkel.

Probably easier to send it out to a good sharpener.

I’ve reshaped tiny point breaks, and one crap knife I reshaped the whole edge. It was ground so that a good part of the edge never touched the cutting board. I also ground the bolster away from the cutting edge to enable hand sharpening.

For a lot of the finer grinding I used this Proxxon tool. Stainless is tough on belts though.

Last (and least) is a Wusthof bread knife that I keep wanting to love, but don't. But it was expensive!

Is that the double serrated one? I got a couple as gifts st the outlet. I used it too, didn’t like it, too aggressive. The woman at the outlet, who was from the company in Germany, couldn’t believe I didn't like it. It does have it’s uses, but specialized.

 

[Scruffy]

Thanks for starting this thread, Tony. Reminds me I'm overdue to treat myself to a nice knife. Like you, I have economized on kitchen cutlery, despite being the house cook and having a friend in the cutlery business. Most of my knives are the garden variety lower end Wusthof and Henckels.

I have one good knife, at least for my budget. It's a Kikuichi Warikomi Gold Gyuto.

 

[crgildart]

Remember when a good can opener came with a little stone grinder knife sharpener on the back side?

I'm lazy and go with serrated for most things. I had a 20 year old steak knife break in half just under the wooden handle last month.. It had rusted out around the hole where the wood was attached underneath.

Still using the good knives that we got for our wedding in 2,000. They get sharpened occasionally but hold the edge very well..