Knowing your ski customer -another epiphany

[Tricia]

Bud Heishman's thread about the TEDx talk epiphany got me thinking about how we sell products to different customers and how these customers respond.

When selling skis I am often faced with a customer who is responsive if I sell the fun factor. -This ski will make your ski day more enjoyable!
There are other times when the customer needs to be sold confidence - This ski is completely different than the ski you crashed on. It is far more stable and will respond better to your skiing.
Then there is the customer who responds to growth - You've gotten so much better that you need a new ski to go with your new skills.
Then there is a customer who is looking for simple comfort for one week out of the year - This ski boot will be comfortable and fit your needs, as will this ski/binding combination, so you won't be dealing with lines in the rental building while you're on your vacation

How do we sell the ski experience to suit the needs of the customer?

 

[Paul Lutes]

Make it mandatory to fill out a 20 page questionnaire in preparation for customer evaluation; convert questionnaire answers into digital values, input into computer algorithm; grab skis determined by computer; charge 20 % processing fee.

Or ..... take time to chat with customer initially, use spidey-sense to uncover true needs of customer which may not be what the customer thinks they are.

Seriously, I doubt there's a simple answer to this, but basically the salesperson needs to be almost superhumanly able to quickly determine the true needs of a customer, sometimes even convincing the customer that they know more about their needs than the customer actually does. Hilarity often ensues when the sales person, without learning about the customer first immediately jumps to I-know-more-about-you-than-you-do, even when they've only had the sales position for 2 days. Ultimately it just seems to be the art of reading people accurately and a talent for smooth (not necessarily a bad thing) talking, but I'm sure they marketing experts have their closely guarded secrets and theories.

 

[Mendieta]

Bud Heishman's thread about the TEDx talk epiphany got me thinking about how we sell products to different customers and how these customers respond.

When selling skis I am often faced with a customer who is responsive if I sell the fun factor. -This ski will make your ski day more enjoyable!
There are other times when the customer needs to be sold confidence - This ski is completely different than the ski you crashed on. It is far more stable and will respond better to your skiing.
Then there is the customer who responds to growth - You've gotten so much better that you need a new ski to go with your new skills.
Then there is a customer who is looking for simple comfort for one week out of the year - This ski boot will be comfortable and fit your needs, as will this ski/binding combination, so you won't be dealing with lines in the rental building while you're on your vacation

How do we sell the ski experience to suit the needs of the customer?

Frankly? I love it when I'm asked what I'm looking for, and the sales person asks a few intelligent questions to tailor the quest, and then work with me on a solution. You know you are talking to the right person when their interest is in solving your problem or achieving your goal, whether they have the product I need or someone else does. This is how @Greg Whitehouse and his crew work, and why I recommended them California Ski Company @ Berkeley) wholeheartedly on Google reviews. And while I'll keep working with them in the future.

My 2cts

 

[Uncle-A]

I remember asking many customers what they wanted the ski to do for them? Finding out what the expectations of your customer is the one way I found made it easier for me to recommend a ski and satisfy the customer needs. By providing a solution to the expressed need makes closing the deal easy for both the client and the salesperson. One issue I have found slows the process is providing too many options so narrowing the field for the customer will aid in closing the sale. Knowing your product line and the customer preferences will be a benefit to that commission check at the end of the month. Although only one of the four shops I worked paid commissions the other three paid straight salary. I don't know if manufacturers still do this but one year a company ran a promotion that if the salesperson sold a dozen pair of that companies skies the salesperson would win a pair of skis from the company and it didn't cost the shop anything. Of course the salesperson had to document the model, size, and serial number of each ski sold. That motivated some of my coworkers to push that brand but it was a top name brand so I don't think the customer suffered any from the purchase.

 

[Tricia]

Make it mandatory to fill out a 20 page questionnaire in preparation for customer evaluation; convert questionnaire answers into digital values, input into computer algorithm; grab skis determined by computer; charge 20 % processing fee.

Or ..... take time to chat with customer initially, use spidey-sense to uncover true needs of customer which may not be what the customer thinks they are.

Seriously, I doubt there's a simple answer to this, but basically the salesperson needs to be almost superhumanly able to quickly determine the true needs of a customer, sometimes even convincing the customer that they know more about their needs than the customer actually does. Hilarity often ensues when the sales person, without learning about the customer first immediately jumps to I-know-more-about-you-than-you-do, even when they've only had the sales position for 2 days. Ultimately it just seems to be the art of reading people accurately and a talent for smooth (not necessarily a bad thing) talking, but I'm sure they marketing experts have their closely guarded secrets and theories.

The simplicity of it is in the personnel. Is the ski sales person someone who....

• has taken the time to know the product he/she is selling
• is savvy enough to know how to communicate with the customer, which includes listening
• doesn't get hung up on his/her own personal likes and dislikes.

I had a co-worker who was in love with a specific ski. He sold the men's version to every man he talked to, and the women's version to every woman.
When we ran out, he spent copious amounts of time finding more of "that" ski in our shop because he really had no idea how to sell any other ski on the wall, even though we had three or four other viable options in that category that were(sometimes) a better choice for different people.

The harsh reality is, his customers (for the most part) were happy with their new purchase. Those people would have been happy with any one of 5 different skis in our inventory.
Did this salesperson do anything wrong?

 

[chemist]

I'll offer this not as a specific answer to your question, but rather a general suggestion to ski shops:
1) As is obvious, the more accurately someone can read people, the better. Wonder if either of these tests would identify staff that might need help in this area:
http://socialintelligence.labinthewild.org
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ei_quiz/#1
2)If commissions are shared, sometimes the most effective tactic is for the salesperson to identify the particular staff who can best help the customer. If you're selling skis and you're a Masters' racer, and a customer wants a Pipe and Park ski, maybe you should hand off to one of the Pipe and Park guys (explaining, of course, that you're doing this to best help the customer), and visa versa. Customers like this, because it means you respect their particular background. Often I end up speaking with someone that clearly lacks the background to help me, so I have to explicitly ask "do you have anyone with background xyz..."

 

[Core2]

The shops here will sell a never ever some 130 flex boots for $600 and tell them the higher the flex the better they will ski. I heard this pitch myself and pointed the guy to the softer boots that were half the price when the employee walked off. In my experience there seems to be sales people that actually know a ton and care about the customer's experience and then there are the 17 yr olds who get their gear knowledge from Powder and Newschoolers and couldn't care or don't have the knowledge to care. Another good one is when the rental fleet gets low during holidays and shops send people out in drastically incorrectly sized boots or skis. I wonder how many people quit skiing because of bad gear advice?

 

[oldschoolskier]

The key to sales, education or any form of presentation is being able to adapt to the individual you are presenting to.

Typically you likely reach 90% of the people with a standard approach, the other 8% are not unreachable, just require you to change methods and this allows you to reach them. The last 2% are generally unreachable for 2 reasons:

1. Most of this last group, does not match your skill set, ability or personality. You can catch a few more here but be fair to you and them is that sometimes they are better served by someone else.

2. They just don't want too. This is a very small portion and is easily confused with the first group.

 

[bbinder]

The simplicity of it is in the personnel. Is the ski sales person someone who....

• has taken the time to know the product he/she is selling
• is savvy enough to know how to communicate with the customer, which includes listening
• doesn't get hung up on his/her own personal likes and dislikes.

I had a co-worker who was in love with a specific ski. He sold the men's version to every man he talked to, and the women's version to every woman.
When we ran out, he spent copious amounts of time finding more of "that" ski in our shop because he really had no idea how to sell any other ski on the wall, even though we had three or four other viable options in that category that were(sometimes) a better choice for different people.

The harsh reality is, his customers (for the most part) were happy with their new purchase. Those people would have been happy with any one of 5 different skis in our inventory.
Did this salesperson do anything wrong?

No, he didn't do anything wrong, but he is not the type of salesperson that I want to spend any amount of time with. When I run across this type of bias (regardless of what I am shopping for), my mind just turns off until I can politely extract myself from the interaction. But I don't think that everyone is like that, so that is why he is successful. And most people will be happy with the purchase, because most people will see an improvement over the ski they are currently using (and probably purchased 5-10 years previously).

AND, some people like to be told what to buy. There is an interaction that stands out in my mind that I witnessed years ago at a demo shop at Alta: a middle aged, well dressed, apparently type A guy was at the counter to rent skis. The worker was asking him what he was looking for in a ski, how he liked to ski, and discussed what skis might be good for the current condition. The customer interrupted him and said in a stern no-nonsense tone "just give me the best skis that you have." As a salesperson, this type of customer really gives you no option on your approach to him.

 

[fatbob]

I don't think many of us here have great insight from the customer side re skiing given what many of us will try to find in sales staff is someone who at least knows as much as us (or as skied as many skis etc) before we decide their advice is worth anything.

On other stuff - anything I don't know about, washing machines, building materials etc I'll do my research online first so I don't get taken for a mug so even in these areas it largely seems to be about price and/or service level than being "sold" anything.

My parents might take the advice of an "expert" in a store when making a significant purchase but I know most of my generation (which isn't young) have learnt to be highly cynical about such advice where it comes from undertrained or overly "salesy" staff particularly in corporate chain stores.

 

[Philpug]

The shops here will sell a never ever some 130 flex boots for $600 and tell them the higher the flex the better they will ski. I heard this pitch myself and pointed the guy to the softer boots that were half the price when the employee walked off. In my experience there seems to be sales people that actually know a ton and care about the customer's experience and then there are the 17 yr olds who get their gear knowledge from Powder and Newschoolers and couldn't care or don't have the knowledge to care. Another good one is when the rental fleet gets low during holidays and shops send people out in drastically incorrectly sized boots or skis. I wonder how many people quit skiing because of bad gear advice?

Lets touch on this. How many 5'4" 110lb women are on Volkl Aura's because a 6'2" 240lb boyfriend/husband/salesperson recommended it because they ski a Mantra? Too many times recommendations are made to validate ones own decisions. I have said over and over, there are few bad skis but many wrong skis, a good /friendsalesperson/consultand will help you avoid the wrong ones.

 

[Monique]

I don't think many of us here have great insight from the customer side re skiing given what many of us will try to find in sales staff is someone who at least knows as much as us (or as skied as many skis etc) before we decide their advice is worth anything.

This. I never walk into a store to buy a ski unless I already know what ski I want. I fondle skis while waiting for boot fits or if I'm in a store for something else and see something interesting, but I just don't trust most staff at most ski shops to know enough about skis - but particularly, I'm an outlier physically, and I've found that even very knowledgeable people - who treat me with respect and believe me when I tell them the terrain I ski - don't always give reliable advice.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

The simplicity of it is in the personnel. Is the ski sales person someone who....

• has taken the time to know the product he/she is selling
• is savvy enough to know how to communicate with the customer, which includes listening
• doesn't get hung up on his/her own personal likes and dislikes.

I had a co-worker who was in love with a specific ski. He sold the men's version to every man he talked to, and the women's version to every woman.
When we ran out, he spent copious amounts of time finding more of "that" ski in our shop because he really had no idea how to sell any other ski on the wall, even though we had three or four other viable options in that category that were(sometimes) a better choice for different people.

The harsh reality is, his customers (for the most part) were happy with their new purchase. Those people would have been happy with any one of 5 different skis in our inventory.
Did this salesperson do anything wrong?

The salesperson got lucky that the people were happy with their purchase. How many people were unhappy with that purchase? You will likely never know because they are now shopping somewhere else and have told their friends about their less than stellar experience.

 

[Tricia]

I'll offer this not as a specific answer to your question, but rather a general suggestion to ski shops:
1) As is obvious, the more accurately someone can read people, the better. Wonder if either of these tests would identify staff that might need help in this area:
http://socialintelligence.labinthewild.org
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ei_quiz/#1
2)If commissions are shared, sometimes the most effective tactic is for the salesperson to identify the particular staff who can best help the customer. If you're selling skis and you're a Masters' racer, and a customer wants a Pipe and Park ski, maybe you should hand off to one of the Pipe and Park guys (explaining, of course, that you're doing this to best help the customer), and visa versa. Customers like this, because it means you respect their particular background. Often I end up speaking with someone that clearly lacks the background to help me, so I have to explicitly ask "do you have anyone with background xyz..."

Our shop doesn't have commission. But, we are pretty good ad setting the customer up with the right associate. We also tend to get seasonal staff every season,who need to be trained. Not always an easy task.

 

[eok]

In a past life I worked in a ski shop that both sold and rented gear. I split my time between the rental side and ski sales side. I'd see a lot of rental regulars and would always chat with them and learn a lot about them & their skiing experiences. When it became clear to me that a rental customer had rented gear several times (i guess that would be > 7 tickets for them so far) I'd begin chatting with them about their future plans for skiing. I'd eventually point out that it would likely be more economical (and easier logistically) for them to consider buying gear instead of doing the rental dance. In most cases I'd suggest they buy boots first & I'd comp them a free demo or two so we could find the best ski/binding setup for them. Anyway, I always had a pretty consistent series of sales from this. I was never aggressive about selling them, just trying to help/guide them for a better experience. Very low key. Got a lot of loyal customers from this. Now, admittedly, this was ages ago - before "parabolic" skis took hold.

I've observed how present day ski rental shops operate and it appears - in most cases - that the main focus of the operations are to just process folks ASAP and I totally understand why that is. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the rental side of a shop can serve as a key resource for learning about customer needs & experiences. I expect that, behind the scenes, many shops use some sort of software to help run rental ops. Not sure if that software tracks customer experience data points. If not, it should. I'd think that knowledge could be used to help in the gear selection process when they decide it's time to buy/lease.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

15 or so years ago, Atomic had a program called: WINGS - Women in New Gear. They had their new women's skis in a variety of sizes along with different boots to demo. They provided an examiner level instructor to ski with the group, answer questions and give some minimal feedback. The days started with a short introduction to the skis an boots and a description of the equipment. It was fantastic and they sold a lot of gear on that day.

Nordica has done a couple of women's demo days at Loveland -providing instructors to ski with the group. Again, lots of sales. I think the participants felt like they were educated about the product and allowed to try the products as opposed to being told, honey, this is the ski you need.

 

[Philpug]

We just spent some time with one rep who was all excited about a (yet another) woman's program that they will be integrating next season. I am sure it had some clever acronym but I forget what it was. They are talking about all these high level women skier and racers they are going to have a part of it which makes it no different than anyother women's program that has failed in the past. Have they talked to women on sites like here and Ski Diva and actually asked what these women want? What their aspirations are" Have they asked "how can we help you achieve them? No. They are going to use a team of women who have more in common with with a high level male skier/racer than the average woman skier. What will they learn from this? Nothing other than in 3-5 years they will do it again and get the same results and still say "we have tried womens programs but they don't work". This industry is the epitemy of insanity, we do the same things over and over and expect different results.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

We just spent some time with one rep who was all excited about a (yet another) woman's program that they will be integrating next season. I am sure it had some clever acronym but I forget what it was. They are talking about all these high level women skier and racers they are going to have a part of it which makes it no different than anyother women's program that has failed in the past. Have they talked to women on sites like here and Ski Diva and actually asked what these women want? What their aspirations are" Have they asked "how can we help you achieve them? No. They are going to use a team of women who have more in common with with a high level male skier/racer than the average woman skier. What will they learn from this? Nothing other than in 3-5 years they will do it again and get the same results and still say "we have tried womens programs but they don't work". This industry is the epitemy of insanity, we do the same things over and over and expect different results.

Phil, are you saying the Atomic and Nordica programs were not successful? I am not sure what programs you are referencing.

The only criticism I have of the Atomic and Nordica programs that I attended, was that they were not well advertised. The only way I found out about them was through friends. If they were advertised in ski shops and other places were women would see them. I think they would do well.

 

[Uncle-A]

At times you may think that you do not have to be a sales person just an educator and let the customer make the end decision. It takes longer to make the sale but the customer walks away happy.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Pretty much only listen to the advice of those that I have skied with, thankfully that is everyone from my regular shop. Gaining some confidence in the advice here on Pugski as many really have valued opinions. Rarely trust a salesperson that I do not know.