Keto, Low Carb, Atkins, IF Thread

[cantunamunch]

Ummmm... for those of us just getting into this material, "insulin response" is not a common term on the interwebs. Do you mean "releases the least insulin in response to food"? And that is good...or bad?

I'm not @VickieH , but her comment makes complete sense if she meant "insulin resistance". High insulin resistance is BAD - and it has to do with how your cells absorb sugar.

Background:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...sJHLDgp2FPD7PT71AeWPYaivm_V2agDd9kmJAkCzIp-Gw

Related to circadian rhythms:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-018-0122-1

 

[Blue Streak]

Here is an amazing testimonial!
Geez, I would be happy to lose 20 pounds.
But 145 pounds in 7 months!!!!

 

[Tricia]

Other tenets I try to adopt to succeed:

• Eat early
• Drink LOTS of water
• Turn of the electronics and get a good night's sleep

Where does Bourbon fit in Keto?

 

[Noodler]

Where does Bourbon fit in Keto?

Actually any distilled alcohol is fine in moderation. Alcohol will be burned first though, before fat. So it can stall weight loss.

 

[VickieH]

Ummmm... for those of us just getting into this material, "insulin response" is not a common term on the interwebs. Do you mean "releases the least insulin in response to food"? And that is good...or bad?

I realized my post is a little misleading, so I went back to the book and summarized that section (indented, below). First, though, @cantunamunch is correct on both points: the underlying topic is Circadian Rhythms and when I said "insulin response", I am actually referring to "insulin resistance". I use "insulin response" when I think of it because insulin resistance sounded like a good thing. In fact, insulin resistance is bad.

The Complete Guide to Fasting, pp 204-209, heading "Circadian Rhythms", talks about two things: Insulin and Ghrelin.

Insulin -- There have been a couple of studies on the timing of meals. A 2013 study of overweight women broke them into two groups, one that would have a large breakfast and the other, a large dinner. All of them consumed about 1400 calories a day. The women who had large breakfasts lost far more weight; those who had large dinners experienced an overall rise in insulin. A similar study in 1992 showed those who a meal late in the day had a 25-50% higher insulin response (yes, that term was used!) than those who had the same meal early in the day. Higher insulin results in more weight gain.

Ghrelin -- Ghrelin is our hunger hormone. It is naturally at its lowest around 8 AM and at its highest around 8 PM. We are hungriest at a time that our bodies will release greater amounts of insulin in response to the same meal.

With respect to timing of meals -- or better, the timing of not eating -- the authors recommend not eating in the morning when our ghrelin is low and we're not really hungry and not eating our largest meal in the evening when it will trigger the release of an increased amount of insulin. They recommend having the largest meal between noon and 3 PM.​

I read the whole book, but that section was the key take-away for me. It's the kind of information can be valuable for anyone. Someone on WW might adjust the timing of their meals in order to lose weight faster on the same number of points. Same for someone following calorie restriction, or keto, or whatever. Or someone who is just "watching what they eat". (Or when I want to splurge, but not pay as high a price for that pleasure!)

 

[Blue Streak]

Where does Bourbon fit in Keto?

Scotch.
No booze for a month though.
I want to ski, and I have to lose some weight to do it.
Scotch isn’t nearly the temptation that IPA is.

 

[no edge]

I use Keto for only one week, so there is a question as to whether I am actually Keto. If I do it right I loose 12 plus lbs. Many say that that weight is water. I am not so sure. Going aggressively with Keto I experience the elimination on hunger quickly. It makes it easy to not desire tons of food.

Since it is only for a week I feel like my diet does not have to be perfect except to be strict about meat, fish. I eat lots of butter - grass fed. No sugar, milk (heavy cream is ok), no legumes, no grains, and no fruits (as a rule). Veggies ought to be low in sugar. Bacon is good as is eggs. Plenty of olive oil. Coffee, butter and MCT oil. I don't even know what MCT is, but it goes in my coffee.

This is easy and short. After the 7 days I switch to Paleo. sometimes my weight loss continues with Paleo. But I tend to cut corners after a while. But I can maintain good weight for four to six months. It would be easy to maintain for over a year if I weren't a slacker.

This means Keto two or three times a year. I am 65 and in not so good health. If I were smart Paleo would rule my life. It really works for me and many others that I know who follow it. But I am not lifting and training at Crossfit so my ambition slips away.

I should mention... I don't drink so that is considered cheating.

 

[Seldomski]

If I were smart Paleo would rule my life. It really works for me and many others that I know who follow it. But I am not lifting and training at Crossfit so my ambition slips away.

Working out is key for me to watch what I eat. I really notice a decrease in exercise performance when I eat poorly. Eating poorly means carb heavy, or foods with high glycemic index, and generally large portions of non-paleo stuff (bread, cheese, pasta, rice, etc).

 

[Noodler]

Calories In, Calories Out (CICO) is pure fallacy. It's based on thermodynamics (physics). The human body is not a thermodynamic machine.

Also, I've found that working out a lot has its pros and cons. Sure it's great to exercise for your health, but it's not the key to losing weight. What you put in your "pie hole" is what matters most. You can't workout enough to cover for bad eating habits. Also, keep in mind what grandma also told you... "work-up a good appetite". Hard workouts can trigger binge eating. You will be hungrier from a big workout. It's the body's natural response to using up energy.

 

[cantunamunch]

You can't workout enough to cover for bad eating habits. .

TBH, you can - and the proof is that plenty of athletes get in trouble when they lower their workout levels.

You can, but you literally have to exhale all the carbon - and most people don't have pro-cyclists' or pro-nordic-skiers' lung capacity let alone the stamina to sustain that at levels sufficient to lose weight without intake control.

 

[VickieH]

@Blue Streak -- Week 1 is in the books. How's it going? -- not the numbers as much as how you're feeling about it.

 

[Blue Streak]

@Blue Streak -- Week 1 is in the books. How's it going? -- not the numbers as much as how you're feeling about it.

I was down 4.5 as of Wednesday morning. Went in for some elective surgery and have been sick as a dog since. The diet resumes as soon as I feel like a human being again.

 

[VickiK]

Feel better soon.

 

[no edge]

Calories In, Calories Out (CICO) is pure fallacy. It's based on thermodynamics (physics). The human body is not a thermodynamic machine.

Also, I've found that working out a lot has its pros and cons. Sure it's great to exercise for your health, but it's not the key to losing weight. What you put in your "pie hole" is what matters most. You can't workout enough to cover for bad eating habits. Also, keep in mind what grandma also told you... "work-up a good appetite". Hard workouts can trigger binge eating. You will be hungrier from a big workout. It's the body's natural response to using up energy.

I like this... "Calories in Calories out" - I am reluctant to accept this. When seriously training a huge calorie count is common, but not enough to be burned off through exercise. I believe that strength training combined with the met-con is where it's at. Improvements in strength seems to allow me to eat more and still lose weight. A strong body burns calories during rest.

 

[no edge]

I began Keto on Tuesday morning, my version, strict. It's Friday morning and I have lost 8 lbs. That's a lot and probably not a real reflection of where I am in terms of true weight loss. But the "water loss" thing is a part of all diet aimed at trimming down. It just happens faster with aggressive weight loss.

When I look in the mirror I see the weight loss. The most obvious is the belly fat - I look more athletic. My face looks haggard, like I have aged five years. Also my feet have lost fat. It is good to see results.

My goal is to go through Tuesday with strict Keto, then switch to strict Paleo. Strict Paleo is not far from Keto. I will add root veggies (especially - sweet potato), some fruit maybe whole cream and yogurt also larger portions... heaping veggies plus a good amount of meat or seafood. Ice cream, cookies and Reese's, they always call for me.

Missing from all of this is exercise.

My weight 189, to 181. 5'10"

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Where does Bourbon fit in Keto?

0 carbs in bourbon

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I began Keto on Tuesday morning, my version, strict. It's Friday morning and I have lost 8 lbs. That's a lot and probably not a real reflection of where I am in terms of true weight loss. But the "water loss" thing is a part of all diet aimed at trimming down. It just happens faster with aggressive weight loss.

When I look in the mirror I see the weight loss. The most obvious is the belly fat - I look more athletic. My face looks haggard, like I have aged five years. Also my feet have lost fat. It is good to see results.

My goal is to go through Tuesday with strict Keto, then switch to strict Paleo. Strict Paleo is not far from Keto. I will add root veggies (especially - sweet potato), some fruit maybe whole cream and yogurt also larger portions... heaping veggies plus a good amount of meat or seafood. Ice cream, cookies and Reese's, they always call for me.

Missing from all of this is exercise.

My weight 189, to 181. 5'10"

When you say strict Keto you mean ketosis and less than 25 net carbs per day. Just trying to understand.

I often think of trying this with a transition to stict paleo. Reeses's call to me too

 

[Noodler]

I began Keto on Tuesday morning, my version, strict. It's Friday morning and I have lost 8 lbs. That's a lot and probably not a real reflection of where I am in terms of true weight loss. But the "water loss" thing is a part of all diet aimed at trimming down. It just happens faster with aggressive weight loss.

When I look in the mirror I see the weight loss. The most obvious is the belly fat - I look more athletic. My face looks haggard, like I have aged five years. Also my feet have lost fat. It is good to see results.

My goal is to go through Tuesday with strict Keto, then switch to strict Paleo. Strict Paleo is not far from Keto. I will add root veggies (especially - sweet potato), some fruit maybe whole cream and yogurt also larger portions... heaping veggies plus a good amount of meat or seafood. Ice cream, cookies and Reese's, they always call for me.

Missing from all of this is exercise.

My weight 189, to 181. 5'10"

Understand that you're in the toughest period right now. If you've never done Keto before then keep the following in mind:

1. You must supplement salts (Ka, Mg, Na) to help ease/avoid "keto flu" side effects. I use "Salt Stick" purchased off Amazon.
2. You're not keto-adapted yet. It will take weeks, if not an entire month, for your body to truly become fully keto-adapted. Don't get discouraged as the scale starts to be inconsistent and they way you feel day-to-day may not be great.
3. Eat - this is probably the biggest mistake many first time keto dieters make. You have to eat for this to work correctly. I just use my own appetite triggers as guidance. Only eat when you're truly hungry. Don't overeat, but definitely don't go hungry. I have not found IF (fasting) to be beneficial for my own weight loss, but YMMV.

Understand that most people are carb-addicted. Keto "flips the switch" to get your body to understand how to use fats (primarily MCTs and LCTs) as fuel. Getting off carbs is like going through withdrawal. Many people fail in getting through this withdrawal successfully. It takes time.

Good luck!

 

[Fishbowl]

I lost 40 lbs in 3 months doing Atkins in the mid 90s. Nothing but eggs, bacon, steak, shrimp, chicken and pork, all covered in mayo and cheese! I also felt GREAT, including normal blood sugar and blood fat levels. It took me 8 years to slowly put it back on, then I lost it all over again. Like many diets, it’s easy to loose weight, but harder to keep it off long term. You can only eat eggs and bacon for so long before you start to go stir crazy.

 

[Noodler]

I lost 40 lbs in 3 months doing Atkins in the mid 90s. Nothing but eggs, bacon, steak, shrimp, chicken and pork, all covered in mayo and cheese! I also felt GREAT, including normal blood sugar and blood fat levels. It took me 8 years to slowly put it back on, then I lost it all over again. Like many diets, it’s easy to loose weight, but harder to keep it off long term. You can only eat eggs and bacon for so long before you start to go stir crazy.

Atkins is not keto. Dr. Atkins never fully understood the bio-mechanisms that made his diet work for some, but not for others. My first foray into this realm of dieting was also using Atkins. Worked the first time fantastically (lost 75 lbs.), slowly regained, did it again (only 40 lbs.) and then slowly learned that the key problem with Atkins for many dieters is too much protein. Atkins never published this in the early books; the concept of the correct macros balance. Only eat the amount of protein your body needs based on your LBM (lean body mass). More than that will squash the weight loss. I stick to 80% fat, 17% protein, 3% carbs for my intake (by calories, not mass).