Increasing base angle

[KevinF]

i recently had my Stockli SR88’s ground and the base is 0.7 which feels a bit hooky especially in tight bumps.

Before I had it at 1.0 on the base.

I’m guessing adding 0.3 degrees of bevel is going to take a light touch... are we talking a few passes with a coarse diamond stone or what’s the recommendation here?

 

[Josh Matta]

just sideslip it down some ice.... hard to find ice right now.....

Are you sure there isnt a hanging burr or railed edge? or the base grind went wonky?BTW the bumps today in places had some really aggressive snow an overly sharp ski felt like hell in some places.

 

[KingGrump]

A smooth file n 1° base bevel guide will get it done in a jiffy.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I'd just use a fine file on a 1 degree guide and take light passes until the file stops cutting. Then you'd want to be sure to de-burr the side edge.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

Try skiing switch. Maybe the tune is backwards.

 

[mdf]

1 degree guide

Do you have one Kevin? I can bring mine to the NE Gathering. I've never used it to set base angles, though, just to guide while smoothing out rock hits.

0.3 degrees across a one millimeter wide edge is only 5 microns, so I think a few passes with a coarse grit stone will do it. We could always use the magic marker trick to evaluate.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Maybe just detune with a few passes of a gummy stone, that way when things harden up you can sharpen up the .7. Especially if its just the tips getting hooky.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Never ever detune, bad.

If they feel hooky it maybe that you have a touch of burr.

I ski 0.5 base and can say that my skis never feel hooky. They are very quick to get on edge so skiing neutral is important.

0.7 is a nice compromise, but again NO BURR is a must.

 

[Wilhelmson]

If he was going to file the bases to 1 degree anyways..........I've never detuned but have skied plenty of untuned skis in soft snow. Went over the edges quickly with a medium stone, felt perfect for the conditions in the northeast this weekend.

 

[SlideWright]

If you are burr free, not railed and are intent on changing the .7 to a 1, you might as well try a radial bevel first. Instead of detuning, try gradually increasing the base bevel at tips and tails a little at a time to see if it is more about initiating and existing a turn vs throughout the whole turn.

 

[Atomicman]

You are welcome to try a radial tune. I tried it.......Absolutley hated it. Instead of making the ski feel looser at the tip and tail it felt like there was way too much pressure underfoot. It felt as though the middle of the ski was closer to the snow. Very unnerving and awkward. But hey, you may love it! I ski from the tip back. I believe it is all about tip pressure/engagement! I don't like the center of the ski engaging first!

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You are welcome to try a radial tune. I tried it.......Absolutley hated it. Instead of making the ski feel looser at the tip and tail it felt like there was way too much pressure underfoot. It felt as though the middle of the ski was closer to the snow. Very unnerving and awkward. But hey, you may love it! I ski from the tip back. I believe it is all about tip pressure/engagement! I don't like the center of the ski engaging first!

View attachment 42211

That's my exact experience with a radial tune too.

 

[KevinF]

Well, I took @epic 's advice... just took a single pass with a fine file on a 1 degree base edge guide. It doesn't look to be quite at one degree yet, but it should be a touch looser. Edges felt burr free... Might have been an overly sharp edge on pretty grabby snow. Guess I'll find out the next time I'm on snow. Thanks for the advice.

 

[PTskier]

When I first went to 0.7°, it felt kind'a hooky. I soon got used to it and liked it.

So that's a radial tune. I liked mine. I had the bottom bevel set at 0.7°, then feathered 1' from the tip & 6" from the tail to 1°. Worked fine, but I ended up liking the full 0.7° better.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I have considered a variable base bevel, based on advise of @Atomicman I decided against it (without the detailed explaination he gave this time, mine was not worth the effort). My feeling is that the a slight early rise such as what Rossi uses in their skis gives the benefits you are trying to obtain from a variable tune. My son has a set of skis that has this and I was very pleasantly surprised how they engaged and skied (considering I generally over ski inter/advanced skis). Subjectively I would say this is the solution, having been thru defuning 35 years ago (and even back then realizing it was wrong) to base bevel which is great and consistent (easy to do correctly), to reading somewhere about intention burrs (hooks) for increased ice grip recently (though I think this is a hit and miss tune and result in more issues than the effort is worth similar to a variable tune if not worse).

IMHO a lot of skiers skis a 1 base because they don’t ski neutral and balanced. They lack edge feel so are consently (though not intentionally) engaging and alternating one edge to the other because they can’t feel the edge.

Learn this and what you can do on skis changes dramatically.

 

[SlideWright]

These kinds of 'issues' provide opportunities for each person to experiment and learn by doing and feeling the differences. Then you can decide what works for you. Depending on the ski, snow type, skier, etc. YMMV.

To change the 0.3 degrees, a file is not needed and a 100x diamond works very well.

As one example of a side edge radial tune is a friend that when in the backcountry, prefers a much grippier (more acute) edge underfoot for dicey conditions and no fall zones, while a more feathering grip (less acute) at tips and tails.

I've said this in the past, that when messing around with deciding on a side edge angle, I set the the outer edges at 3 degree side angle and inner edges at 2 degrees. Then after a few runs, swapped skis to the other foot and skied the same run, snow and terrain to reduce variables while testing the difference. It was pretty telling. (You could take this approach to really tell how different waxes worked, too.)

Experimenting with edge angles is a lot like trying different mount points on a ski. Without trying different options, you will never know if you could get a little more enjoyment out of a given set of skis......or you simply adapt to whatever the tune is and have fun anyway. It's all good, either way.

 

[Atomicman]

Well, I took @epic 's advice... just took a single pass with a fine file on a 1 degree base edge guide. It doesn't look to be quite at one degree yet, but it should be a touch looser. Edges felt burr free... Might have been an overly sharp edge on pretty grabby snow. Guess I'll find out the next time I'm on snow. Thanks for the advice.

Did you put your skis in a vise side edge up bases away from you with a surgical, hardstone, or ceramic stone laid flat against the base edge matching the base edge with the stone about 1/4 above the edge and using medium pressure run the stone along the base edge edge. This removes the hanging burr that that generally cuases the symptoms you are describing. As a final measure I use a hard blue gummi at a 45 degree angle to the edge point, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE, run the gummi along the edge point a couple of passes.

Are your ski bases at all concave in the tip area?

 

[Atomicman]

I have considered a variable base bevel, based on advise of @Atomicman I decided against it (without the detailed explaination he gave this time, mine was not worth the effort). My feeling is that the a slight early rise such as what Rossi uses in their skis gives the benefits you are trying to obtain from a variable tune. My son has a set of skis that has this and I was very pleasantly surprised how they engaged and skied (considering I generally over ski inter/advanced skis). Subjectively I would say this is the solution, having been thru defuning 35 years ago (and even back then realizing it was wrong) to base bevel which is great and consistent (easy to do correctly), to reading somewhere about intention burrs (hooks) for increased ice grip recently (though I think this is a hit and miss tune and result in more issues than the effort is worth similar to a variable tune if not worse).

IMHO a lot of skiers skis a 1 base because they don’t ski neutral and balanced. They lack edge feel so are consently (though not intentionally) engaging and alternating one edge to the other because they can’t feel the edge.

Learn this and what you can do on skis changes dramatically.

A true 1 degree base bevel skis exceptionally well. I don't think it has anything to do with a skiers ability for edge feel. I am not sure about more base bevel and early rise tip accomplishing quite the same thing?

 

[James]

I've had a few "radial" tunes in the past and never was a fan. I think I did .5 under foot to .75 tip/tail and or .75 to 1.0.
I just didn't like the feel. I'd just rather my skis be one personality. I could see some use for it for odd situations. I'd also someone increase base b

Everyone who gets a new computer machine capable of it wants you to try it.

 

[Atomicman]

A true 1 degree base bevel skis exceptionally well. I don't think it has anything to do with a skiers ability for edge feel. I am not sure about more base bevel and early rise tip accomplishing quite the same thing?

And I will add, you don't get that weird middle of ski pressure. When you roll the ski up on edge with a early rise tip the tip does engage and feels very normal, pretty much to me just like a ski with conventional tip.