In Between Ski (Stockli AX and Liberty Genesis 106) (long;sorry)

[Jerez]

I love both these skis and can manage pretty much anything between the two of them. But definitely the Liberty skis are happier in soft off-piste and the Stocklis are much more at home on hard snow -- on or off the trails. And, most of the time, conditions are someplace in between.

I also am finding that I'm having a problem easily switching between skis as they like to be driven differently. The Libertys can carve (especially at higher speeds) but are happy swiveling through soft snow. The Stocklis can swivel (sort of) but much prefer being on edge.

The gap between for each ski: hard pack and western "ice" for the Libertys and 3 or 4 inches of variable snow, particularly set up or wind affected for the Stocklis. Probably an Indian not an Arrow issue, but I don't necessarily trust the AXs in those conditions as they get deflected, especially at slower speed like tree skiing. (They do fine in snow up to 6" if it's light or consistent.)

I find myself longing for something in between surfing and laying them over.

@Pasha has seen me ski on the Libertys and @Dean and @Tony S have seen me ski on the Stocklis, so I'd be particularly interested in their take.

Do I "need" another ski? Maybe not, but well I am a certified Ski Talker, so there's that.

I don't know which way to lean. I was thinking a Liberty Genesis 90/96 or a Liberty Evolve 90W or a Stockli Nela 88 (there is one conveniently for sale here) Or even a Peak 88?

I ski New Mexico and Winter Park Mostly. (lots of trees and dodging rocks in the former and big bad ass bumps in the latter.) Wolf Creek too, but then the 106s are a no-brainer there.

Can the Evolve 90W swivel like the Genesis? Can the Genesis carve well enough? Will the Nela 88 be so directional that it'll get hung up in deepish cruddy snow trees like the AX sometimes does?

Also, I am quite the Princess and Pea when it comes to skis, so It's tough to not demo first. That, however, is impractical with the Stocklis and impossible with the Peaks.

And, is it normal to need to take a day to go from one to the other? It seems like the first day back on either of my skis I feel like I have to relearn how to ski them. Once I do, I think, "I should just ski these all the time!" Until I get on the other pair and a day later feel the same about them.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[The Retired Skier]

How big are you?

 

[Jerez]

5'3.5 and shrinking 116 lbs
Skis are 154 Stockli and 167 Liberty

 

[Mendieta]

I ski New Mexico and Winter Park Mostly. (lots of trees and dodging rocks in the former and big bad ass bumps in the latter.)

So, I am a hack so I'm not giving you any advice . But I've been in the same boat between my Rallies (74?) and my Enforcer 100's. Switching didn't take me much time, but the Rallies were great mostly on piste and ok off-piste, and the E100 great on open bowls offpiste but hard for me to even put on edge on groomers.

But more importantly, there was a gap, terrain wise, and it was on the terrain that I encounter the most: tight offpiste. Whether it's rocks, trees, moguls or a combination of those. The E100 were a bit slow edge to edge and to swing around, and the Rallies too hooky.

This season I got the previous generation Faction Candidte Thorvex 1.0 (at 92mm), a bit short for me at 178cm, and am I glad.They absolutely rock! I do so much better in that typical type of terrain than with the other two, that I am not bothering taking the others with me. (unless it's clearly icy, or clearly soft)

So, yes, I think a fairly short, high 80's/low 90's will completely make you happy, as long as it is your type of ski. The CT1.0 fits the bill for me because it loves being on edge, and loves being pivoted at will, so, what's not to love!

EDIT: just read your specs. I am 6'1 185#. Given your size, I would estimate that mid to high 80's is your best bet for the daily driver (IMHO).

 

[Jerez]

Ayayayay another one to consider. Thank you @Mendieta

 

[cantunamunch]

This season I got the previous generation Faction Candidte Thorvex 1.0 (at 92mm), a bit short for me at 178cm, and am I glad.They absolutely rock! I do so much better in that typical type of terrain than with the other two, that I am not bothering taking the others with me. (unless it's clearly icy, or clearly soft)

HAH was waiting for a Faction owner

 

[Tony S]

I also am finding that I'm having a problem easily switching between skis as they like to be driven differently. The Libertys can carve (especially at higher speeds) but are happy swiveling through soft snow. The Stocklis can swivel (sort of) but much prefer being on edge.

The gap between for each ski: hard pack and western "ice" for the Libertys and 3 or 4 inches of variable snow, particularly set up or wind affected for the Stocklis. Probably an Indian not an Arrow issue, but I don't necessarily trust the AXs in those conditions as they get deflected, especially at slower speed like tree skiing. (They do fine in snow up to 6" if it's light or consistent.)

Liberty Evolve 90W or a Stockli Nela 88 (there is one conveniently for sale here) Or even a Peak 88?

I hear you. Wish I could give you a great answer.

I've ALMOST but not quite been on the Evolv 90W and the Nela 88. Specifically I've skied the OG Evolv 90 and the Stockli SR 85w (which is my much-loved daily driver). These are ancestors of the skis you mention. They are/were both on the traditional / directional side, design-wise, with what I would call a 50/50 on-/off-piste balance. Neither has a ton of early rise, and both have a backbone.

Based on your comment about skiing trees at low speed in 3D snow, I'm suspecting that you might be wanting more of a 40/60 kind of design for this niche in your quiver. The Peak 88 might be it, but I have no first hand clue about that. @KingGrump likes it. If it were me I would be trying a Kastle FX 86ti. I was a huge fan of one of ITS ancestors. The Elan Ripstick 88 is very easy going and handles ungroomed snow, but is emphatically not a charger. The Fischer RC One GT 82 Ti is worth trying too.

Honestly the thing that comes to mind first is a ski I was just on for a run or two this weekend, courtesy of @DebbieSue . (She was testing my Volkl Blaze 94, which is a very nice ski, but may be too much like your Liberty.) It's the newest (I think) Black Pearl 88 @159cm. I was surprised at its carving chops (with a Ski MD tune), and it did fine in some soft bumps, albeit not with the seductive slinkiness of my Stocklis. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's not good.

HTH

 

[DebbieSue]

My BP88s 159 are 20/21 which was the year of a design change making them stiffer/more directional than in past, so I’m told. My mogul skiing has progressed tremendously on them courtesy of Taos ski week 2 years in a row and so has my confidence at “speed” (30 mph, ha ha! ) on New England firm, what you’d call ice. I had demo’d them 5 years earlier at snowmass and did not like older version, tips flapping, swivelly, no thanks.
Current pair has handled 6-8in fresh snow east and west, including powder and carved up fresh, and they do fine in bumps and trees at my low speed, 5’5” 140. Nela 88 is prob similar but I don’t hear the love for that ski that I have heard /still hear for Stormrider Motion 85.
I’ve also been on liberty V76w 159, at Taos, which did not require different technique than BP88, which I think means I’m more of an edger than swiveler. Interestingly really liked Volkl Secret 96, again no technique change required.
Demo’d Ranger 102 162 in Utah in 6-8in powder, some bumps, groomers. THOSE required technique change. Wish I loved them that day but the technique change required not only for powder but for packed powder groomer and bumps was unnerving. Interestingly, @Tony S Blaze 96 172s felt more familiar, the fun was accessible. Maybe I’m too edgy and old (63) to ever like a surfy ski.
Maybe you really do need more of an all mountain ski to avoid the Jekyll /Hyde thing you are experiencing. @MissySki and @lisamamot both loved their Volkl Blaze 86 at Taos. See their posts in the Taos thread from late Feb. Maybe that’s a ski to consider…less $$ than Nela.

 

[Jerez]

Thank you. BTW, I am older than you! I like swivel in trees and tight bumps. But I too am an edger. I demoed the BPs maybe eight years ago (yikes!) but found them sort of planky. Maybe they're different now and I should try again. I have liked Volkl skis in the past, so maybe the Blaze is another to consider.

 

[cantunamunch]

Interestingly, @Tony S Blaze 96 172s felt more familiar, the fun was accessible. Maybe I’m too edgy and old (63) to ever like a surfy ski.

I was actually wondering why @Tony S didn't mention these of his own accord; he's been a fan elsewhere.

 

[1Turn2Many]

5'3.5 and shrinking 116 lbs
Skis are 154 Stockli and 167 Liberty

My wife, 5’3” and 110 lbs, rode her new Sheeva 9s (157 cm) for the first time today. It was a storm skiing day. She has never skied with more confidence; asking to ski the steepest, bumpiest, most challenging runs. Crud was slayed. I think the key was that the new skis color coordinated well with her ski pants and she was digging that.

 

[DebbieSue]

I was actually wondering why @Tony S didn't mention these of his own accord; he's been a fan elsewhere.

He did, but thought the Blaze 94 (not 96, my error) might be too much like her Liberty ski.

 

[raytseng]

If you enjoyed the stockli damp feel, for a 90mm ski, I can suggest to try the new 2024(?) K2 mindbender 89ti. I tried it at a demo day, same day as the Montero ax, and it was closest to the stockli feel out of my non-stockli sampling, but with a more true offpiste shape, and I was pretty impressed..

I was on the mens version, you may need to get the W for the shorter lengths, but K2 should be pretty available to demo and see for yourself (and at half the price of stocklis).

 

[Prosper]

Do I "need" another ski?

I think you know the answer to this question.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Get those Nela’s for a demo if you can. Stormriders would be great too if they make them in the right length for you.

But honestly I am just guessing here based on the fact that you like AX.

 

[Tony S]

planky

I can see that, especially for someone as light as you are.

 

[Wendy]

@tinymoose is skiing a Faction Agent 1.0 (I think that's the model) for that slot in the quiver and she loves them. She's a tad bit shorter than you, but her husband, who is taller, skis that ski as well. It's a mid-80's off-piste-ish ski that may fit the bill.

 

[Tony S]

But I too am an edger.

You are a tipper and ripper. Debbie just has (but is rapidly losing!) the lifelong eastern skier clawing-for-purchase habit. Very different.

 

[Tom K.]

FWIW, my wife is a wee bit heavier than you, and for resort pow, she never expresses any desire for a ski wider than her ~100 mm Sheevas.

She floats better on those than I do on a 108!

 

[martyg]

It sounds like you are splitting hairs. Unless your demo skis were tuned by the same hands, with identical edge bevels, the nuances that you discovered may be meaningless.