"I hate to climb"

[Tom K.]

I don't like hiking when I am skiing when there is a perfectly good lift.

Same with highly preferring a ski lift, yet I absolutely LOVE climbing on a bike. Weird, I know.

My two cents, added to the already-provided excellent advice:

1. Most people, especially in the mtb world, have their seats set too low, which robs you of power -- so does too high, but that isn't as common of a problem.

2. When you stand, shift up first to one higher gear and lock out your fork. For me at least, my optimum standing cadence is significantly lower than while sitting, and I hate a squishy fork under me when I'm standing.

3. When I'm working hard, I count breaths on long climbs, and don't look up more frequently than every 25. That way, every time I look up, I notice that significant progress has been made!

 

[Wilhelmson]

We don't have many big hills in my area so I don't get much exposure to long climbs. There's a couple hundred foot hill near my work so I'll lap that a few times to get in some exercise. Otherwise a lot of the stuff I do is on lightly travelled trails so I'm more likely to loose traction on leaves and pine needles than to get winded.

If I'm up in the mountains I enjoy the burn from a few 500-1000 foot mtb climbs and subsequent descents. My rides usually last a couple hours so I'm not out pushing too hard anyways, just like to feel the breeze, have fun, and get back in one piece.

 

[cantunamunch]

4) sit farther back on saddle on a steep climb
<-----

Really?

I'm usually on the rivet, hunting for diagonals just to keep cadence

 

[scott43]

Really?

I'm usually on the rivet, hunting for diagonals just to keep cadence

Depends on how steep and where you're at in terms of cadence and power production. Steep MTB climbs, you need the saddle point jammed in your butt. Long road climbs, sliding back gives more power but it's more of a lower RPM thing. At least for me.

 

[scott43]

Check out Indurain in 1994...

vs Lance 2003?..ignore the music...

 

[cantunamunch]

Lol none of us push those gears anymore...

 

[scott43]

Lol none of us push those gears anymore...

I guess though, to me, what stands out was Indurain was a seated, low-rpm, back of the seat grinder. Lance kinda started(?) that high-rpm, front of the seat spin thing. I never competed at that level (obviously!) but I always thought Lance's style was predicated more on how EPO worked in his time and using a style that most benefited its use. Tons of smarter guys around in the sport world with better answers, but that's what I always attributed it to. I prefer low and slow because I blow up otherwise..within reason. I'm solid 90-95rpm most of the time..but long uphills, I drop to 80-85..

 

[cantunamunch]

I guess though, to me, what stands out was Indurain was a seated, low-rpm, back of the seat grinder. Lance kinda started(?) that high-rpm, front of the seat spin thing. I never competed at that level (obviously!) but I always thought Lance's style was predicated more on how EPO worked in his time and using a style that most benefited its use.

I'm not comfortable relying on that hypothesis to explain other cadence differences, prominently between Lance and Jan Ullrich in '03.

In 2000 or 2001 a single helper supposition, on the order of "Doc Ferrari was waaaaaay ahead of anyone else managing EPO athletes" might have worked, but by 2003 everyone had seen high rpm winning big and it wasn't a novelty.

 

[scott43]

I'm not comfortable relying on that hypothesis to explain other cadence differences, prominently between Lance and Jan Ullrich in '03.

In 2000 or 2001 a single helper supposition, on the order of "Doc Ferrari was waaaaaay ahead of anyone else managing EPO athletes" might have worked, but by 2003 everyone had seen high rpm winning big and it wasn't a novelty.

Yeah and Jan was a diesel as well. Dunno..maybe just different strategies. Maybe different physiologies. Dunno.

 

[Monique]

If you go faster and ride a higher gear it won't suck for as long, so if you can, just go faster. I find that in my easiest gear it still sucks just as bad, in a harder gear it stops sucking sooner.

2 - Don't pedal too hard! If the climb has any tech at all, you have to have something in reserve. When you see those sections coming up, punch it and get in there faster so your momentum can carry you through.

Hmm, don't those two quotes contradict each other?

I'm really, really slow on climbs. (MTB. I don't do the road thing.) Last season, I changed my whole approach to climbing. Previously, I'd taken some bad advice about "always pushing yourself" and was redlining constantly. Then I'd stop, wheezing and out of breath, red of face, heart pounding, thinking I was going to die. As soon as I got down to a semi-reasonable heart rate, the torture would start again.

But last season, I embraced granny gear and slow pedaling. I started defaulting to granny in almost all climbing situations, and instead of pushing to go faster than my snail's pace, I matched my pace to a sustainable heart rate. I used my HR watch to keep me honest. Yeah, it's not super accurate, but it seems accurate enough for my purposes.

I may not have been faster, but I actually wasn't slower. Those blow-out breaks took a lot of time and sapped my momentum.

This season, I inadvertently lost 20 pounds. Wow. Even with a lot less of a base, I was much faster. Annoying, but true.

Keep your arms loose..I flap my arms occasionally to make sure I'm not tight and wasting energy clenching my upper body.

Hey, me too! I also periodically check my grip and how much weight I'm putting on my palms.

1. Most people, especially in the mtb world, have their seats set too low, which robs you of power -- so does too high, but that isn't as common of a problem.

From what I observe, men tend to have them too low; women tend to have them too high. You can tell it's (way) too high if you can see a person's pelvis tilt with their pedal stroke.

A great thing about a dropper post is that you don't have to spend a lot of time fiddling to get the right seat height after a descent - just hit the button.

 

[cantunamunch]

Hmm, don't those two quotes contradict each other?

Not really, they just specify a range from above and from below. If I was to sum those up, it would read something like:

Keep a power reserve, i.e. leave something in the tank and don't go beyond AT. Oxygen debt is bad. But, if you have two gears with equivalent developed power, both below AT - pick the taller one. And try to get as much momentum going as possible for when you do need to change to the shorter gear.

One particular scenario that is discouraged by the combination of quotes would be where one settles into a grinding gear before the hill sucks up existing momentum. That is a guaranteed time*suckage maximum.

 

[tball]

For a long climb think about: Pacing, Hydration, and Nutrition.

Pacing has been covered nicely already.

Hydration is pretty simple if you drink about a liter an hour. More if it's hot or less if it's cold. When in doubt drink more, as the only downside is having to pee. Unless you drink WAY too much water, then you can die from washing out your electrolytes, so don't do that. Or, drink Gatorade if that's a concern.

Nutrition is easy to screw up. Too many calories and you puke. Not enough and you bonk. About 300 calories/hour of mostly carbs is a pretty good rule of thumb to keep you going. For a really long ride, some protein is nice too.

And, caffeine! The great, legal, PED. A cold Coke to get you up that last bit of the climb is magical.

 

[Monique]

Nutrition is easy to screw up. Too many calories and you puke. Not enough and you bonk. About 300 calories/hour of mostly carbs is a pretty good rule of thumb to keep you going. For a really long ride, some protein is nice too.

After a particularly memorable bonk (in which the planned 8-10 mile MTB ride turned into an 18 mile ride with a lot of vert), I now bring multiple flavors and textures of food. Some sweet, some salty. Some crunchy, some ... you get the idea. I was just getting used to a gluten free diet at the time, so I only brought sweet things and couldn't eat what others had brought. Eating another sweet thing seemed revolting to me. I could barely choke anything down.

So, now, some trail mix, some Honey Stinger blocks, some jerky, etc. Not much weight, lots of peace of mind.

 

[cantunamunch]

. Eating another sweet thing seemed revolting to me. I could barely choke anything down..

Happens allatime, especially in hot weather. Also, carbs make you thirstier - if you're drinking all sweet it's almost trivial to get to a point where you have a raging mouth thirst at the same time as a full bladder. I've done it in October.

Fresh sun warmed tomatoes ~3 hours in are awesome. The picklejuicers can keep that rot; I'll rather take bloody mary mix any day.

 

[scott43]

Ummm... I think that segue ran out of battery mid-town and the rider needs a taxi?

Yeah..you may be right..

 

[Primoz]

I guess though, to me, what stands out was Indurain was a seated, low-rpm, back of the seat grinder. Lance kinda started(?) that high-rpm, front of the seat spin thing. I never competed at that level (obviously!) but I always thought Lance's style was predicated more on how EPO worked in his time and using a style that most benefited its use.

I think it's pretty safe to say Indurain had at least as much medicine in his body to support him as Lance did, so I don't think RPMs depend on that. Thing is, cycling, as every other sport is evolving. Technology is evolving, as well as training regime is evolving, but thing is, majority just follows "new rules" without much thinking. Lance started this high RPM thing, and it worked for him (EPO or no EPO doesn't really matter now). Considering he won 7 Tours with this style, everyone said if it works for him, then it has to work for me, and everyone started to spin high RPMs, and it got even more insane in last few years, when 120 RPM is pretty much normal thing (probably has something to do with motors too but lets not go there now ). But if high RPMs are good or not, let's just compare Ullrich and Armstrong. Sure Armstrong won, but he won by very little and their riding style was completely the opposite. Even more extreme at that time was Serhiy Honchar. He was TT World champion, won few Grand tour stages etc. and all that when spinning super heavy gears at 50-60 RPM at max. I would say we are all different, and while someone fits 100RPM, others do better at 60RPM, regardless on "support".
Personally I got used to spin a bit lighter gears, but mtb is different then road when it comes to this, as it's kinda hard to hit 80 or 90RPM on 30% climbs, at least for my current shape , so for me that is still on hard mtb climbs only around 60-70RPM.

 

[Monique]

The picklejuicers can keep that rot

I love pickle juice, even when not exercising - but it tends to upset my stomach. Love sour stuff.

Personally I got used to spin a bit lighter gears, but mtb is different then road when it comes to this, as it's kinda hard to hit 80 or 90RPM on 30% climbs, at least for my current shape , so for me that is still on hard mtb climbs only around 60-70RPM.

If the MTB climb is at all technical, kinda hard to hit anything close to that RPM.

 

[TexasStout]

I love pickle juice, even when not exercising - but it tends to upset my stomach. Love sour stuff.

I love sour beers, but haven't tried them for post-ride recovery potential.

 

[Monique]

I love sour beers, but haven't tried them for post-ride recovery potential.

About time!

 

[cantunamunch]

I love sour beers, but haven't tried them for post-ride recovery potential.

Data point: Dogfish Head Seaquench gives more gas than recovery.

I love pickle juice, even when not exercising - but it tends to upset my stomach. Love sour stuff.
.

I love sour stuff enough to eat lemons whole but I still bleurgh on pickle juice