How often should one reset base angle?

[SwissSki]

Hi all,
I tune my skis every 1-2 days but touch the base only with a fine ceramic stone to remove the burr.
I have a 0.75 file guide for the stone which works well after a base grind.

But after a 10-15 days I feel like the base angle got bigger and the 0.75 guide is not catching anymore. I carve pretty aggressively and drive like 15 miles a day.
How often should I bring the skis to the shop to reset the base angle? I feel the skis are not as aggressive as fresh out of the shop, even though my edges are knife sharp.

Thank you!

 

[cantunamunch]

How many days do you have on the skis?

 

[CatskillSteve]

Hmmm. Are you maintaining the side edge angle as well?

 

[SwissSki]

Skis have like 30 days on them, they are Nordica Dobermann Spitfire 72.
I tune the side edges every 1-2 days. If they are still sharp I just polish them with a diamond stone and else use a file. The side angle is 87 degrees.

 

[CatskillSteve]

I don't like Diamond Stones, they're harder than the steel. In theory you may be removing your Edge due to over tuning. Try a regular Stone soaked in soapy water which is a lubricant

 

[Unpiste]

they're harder than the steel

Isn’t that the point? Just don’t overdo it and use a guide. Any stone can remove your edge if you work hard enough at it.

Depending how hard you ski, there’s nothing wrong with getting a base grind every 15 days if it makes a noticeable difference. However, if the shop is already setting the base angle, your file/stone shouldn’t really be catching on anything when you run it on the base edge unless you’re removing burrs. Generally speaking, you should only be removing material from the side edges between grinds to keep things sharp.

 

[SwissSki]

I only touch the base edge with a very fine ceramic stone to remove any burr sticking into the snow after filing and to avoid removing material.

 

[CatskillSteve]

Isn’t that the point? Just don’t overdo it and use a guide. Any stone can remove your edge if you work hard enough at it.

Depending how hard you ski, there’s nothing wrong with getting a base grind every 15 days if it makes a noticeable difference. However, if the shop is already setting the base angle, your file/stone shouldn’t really be catching on anything when you run it on the base edge unless you’re removing burrs. Generally speaking, you should only be removing material from the side edges between grinds to keep things sharp.

In essence what you're really doing is polishing the steel, removing the burrs left from the file, stone 1, stone 2, stone 3, Etc. The honing action. Think of a serrated knife and a straight edge razor. Once the ski comes out of the machine or you finished filing your Edge under a microscope is the serrated bread knife. By working the steel with a combination of stones the end result becomes the razor. The ski on the right has just been filed. The ski on the left is the result of polishing with multiple stones. Note the very edge, the shine, the honing. If you run your finger over it it doesn't feel that sharp. If you run your finger down the running Edge you're getting a Band-Aid, trust me I know! Will your everyday or even Advance skier feel a difference possibly. Will the racer notice a difference absolutely, and it's proven by the time clock. The honing process minimizes friction.

 

[Dave Marshak]

In essence what you're really doing is polishing the steel, removing the burrs left from the file, stone 1, stone 2, stone 3, Etc. The honing action. Think of a serrated knife and a straight edge razor. .... Will the racer notice a difference absolutely, and it's proven by the time clock. The honing process minimizes friction.

The question is whether the fine edge has better grip than the coarse edge. The difference in friction is unnoticeable without a time clock, I want to maximize edge grip. A few weeks ago here there was a podcast in which Ted Ligety said he leaves the edge a little coarse for extremely hard cold courses. That makes sense to me, but I'm only guessing.

I'll use a fine stone on the base edge because I want to work down damage without removing too much material, but otherwise the fine stones are staying in my toolbox for now,

dm

 

[CatskillSteve]

I agree with Teddy. It's easier to cut that hard crusted bread with a serrated knife than it is with a non serrated, apply the same to ice. I'm a hard stuff I really haven't noticed a difference but I am nowhere near the ability of Ted. Where I notice it is on Powder days or in soft snow where the skate tends to hook up more with a coarser edge then with the finer finished Edge. That's when I know I need to tune them and what I mean by tuning them is just polishing them with the stone.

 

[crgildart]

Check and possibly reset after a base grind. Other than that, leave it alone other than polishing..

 

[SlideWright]

Hi all,
I tune my skis every 1-2 days but touch the base only with a fine ceramic stone to remove the burr.
I have a 0.75 file guide for the stone which works well after a base grind.

But after a 10-15 days I feel like the base angle got bigger and the 0.75 guide is not catching anymore. I carve pretty aggressively and drive like 15 miles a day.
How often should I bring the skis to the shop to reset the base angle? I feel the skis are not as aggressive as fresh out of the shop, even though my edges are knife sharp.

Thank you!

Have you measured the base bevel to 'know' the bevel is greater than .75°? Try the Sharpie method with your stone to see if that comes off. If nothing you might try adding thin tape to bottom of the guide to raise angle to see if the stone cuts near the edge corner.

Digital angle finders are super sensitive....maybe too much. Using magnets can help, but I can't trust their thicknesses being perfect across their dimensions, but should be close.

With a true bar, whatever you measure at 57.3mm from the corner with feeler gauge, shims, tape, etc in mms is your bevel angle.

 

[SlideWright]

Hi all,
I tune my skis every 1-2 days but touch the base only with a fine ceramic stone to remove the burr.
I have a 0.75 file guide for the stone which works well after a base grind.

But after a 10-15 days I feel like the base angle got bigger and the 0.75 guide is not catching anymore. I carve pretty aggressively and drive like 15 miles a day.
How often should I bring the skis to the shop to reset the base angle? I feel the skis are not as aggressive as fresh out of the shop, even though my edges are knife sharp.

Thank you!

If it was me, I'd spend 5-10mins and try bumping the side edge to 4°/86° for a more acute, grippier edge before messing with the base bevel. It's a lot of fun and you could just do it to one pair of edges and then swap feet to see how it compares to your 3° edges.

The base bevel has more to do with how quick the edge engages. The more acute corner angle increases grip/engagement. Also, a concave base will affect how quick your edges can get to the snow surface.

 

[Noodler]

@SlideWright - Your post is somewhat similar to my method:

 

[SlideWright]

@Noodler good idea using a clamp with the Wixey flat on the bar. A more certain angle I'll bet.

 

[Atomicman]

Get a Razor-tune and do your side edges. It puts a nearly factory ceramic disk finish on the side edge. I find it superior to diamond stone progression. I use the medium wheel. Takes minutes and removes very little material. Worth every penny! A 4 degree side edge is a bit aggressive, although that is what I use on my FIS SL skis. A 3 should be fine.

 

[DocGKR]

Concur with the Razor-Tune--works great on the side edges!

 

[Atomicman]

By the way stone grind/base bevel once a season should do you. As others have said, sounds like a side edge issue not base bevel.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Did anyone answer the question?

 

[hotwinter74]

Hi all,
I tune my skis every 1-2 days but touch the base only with a fine ceramic stone to remove the burr.
I have a 0.75 file guide for the stone which works well after a base grind.

But after a 10-15 days I feel like the base angle got bigger and the 0.75 guide is not catching anymore. I carve pretty aggressively and drive like 15 miles a day.
How often should I bring the skis to the shop to reset the base angle? I feel the skis are not as aggressive as fresh out of the shop, even though my edges are knife sharp.

Thank you!

One thing I noticed here... you touched the base only. Why??? Normally, people polish the side edge because burr is there.
If you carve 100% without the skidding and the hockey stop... then side edge, base edge, and tip will worn out together and the amount of worn material will be very very little.
In fact, majority of wearing occurs at the base edge, from center to edge direction.
Base edge bevel angle is getting bigger unless you left little steel edge to grind when you worked the first base edge bevel job.
There is one thing more important than increasing base angle, round tip base edge.
In the micro-scale, base edge tip is worn and becomes round shape.
When polishing doesn't work, we use a file to cut some side edge.
This job removes the round tip.
If round tip is big, we need to cut too much material and it is the perfect time to reset base edge.
Or... if you are sensitive skier, you might have your own skiing base edge range.
Your range might be 0.5~0.80... then you would be very uncomfortable when the angle is bigger than 0.8 and it's the time to reset.
As I know, the latest auto machine like Wintersteiger's Mercury can refresh your ski with the minimum material loss.
It's another balance game between your feel, base + edge material, and money.

By the way, if you see the Head racing team ski tuning class video on YouTube, official Head rebels ski service master, Alex said that he always uses the auto machine to set the base bevel and doesn't touch it at all but very fine stone polishing job sometimes. He said " I don't do it because I'm trust the machine more than my hands..."
Well, I still like to touch both side of the edge... my bad.