How much gear do day ticket window skiers buy?

[DerKommissar]

This thread led me to the following question. If I don't plan to ski this season, and haven't bought a pass, can I actually buy a one day Epic "pass" for $75 and use it to try a single day at Keystone in March? That's what it looks like but I can't believe it.

And if so, what will the price be next week or next month??.

View attachment 176928

Last year I skied a four day epic pass at Breckinridge for less than $100 a day. This year I got the full local pass to use here and in CO, but for my son, I just bought him a 4 day pass for our local hill at about $25 a day and a 2 day pass that works at Breck for about $100 total (plus a pass that I bought with a full day lesson). It's affordable, but you have to plan ahead, and I can't take the family to a cheaper place like Copper because I'm locked into Vail resorts for my pass.

 

[skibum4ever]

Welllll...I am now the proud owner of a one day "pass" for Keystone. That will probably be my first day on skis this coming season, and it will definitely occur in late March.

If that goes well, I will reactivate my IKON pass and hopefully get in a few days this spring. If it goes poorly, I will wait until the start of the following season and try again at Mammoth.

Thanks for letting me know about this option.

 

[Jim L]

Welllll...I am now the proud owner of a one day "pass" for Keystone. That will probably be my first day on skis this coming season, and it will definitely occur in late March.

If that goes well, I will reactivate my IKON pass and hopefully get in a few days this spring. If it goes poorly, I will wait until the start of the following season and try again at Mammoth.

Thanks for letting me know about this option.

Many years back I was thinking about hanging up my skis and stopping. The plan was to ski one day in March. If I enjoyed it and wanted to continue I could apply the cost of the day lift ticket towards a season pass good for the remainder of the season PLUS next season. I enjoyed it.

 

[oldschoolskier]

All I can say is long term you are shooting yourself in the foot doing this. While you want to encourage multi-day or seasons passes (under the hope that you don't use them), but pricing yourself out of the day market you eliminates your true bread and butter.

For me its a time thing, have way to much other commitments/interest that doing on is not an option. Make it to the point that a day out costs me way more than that of other activities cost a year. I enjoy scuba while equipment is expensive tank fills cost way less and a week of diving costs less than a week of skiing. Guess which way my hard earned cash goes. Sorry resorts and ski equipment manufacturers you lose our.

Love my skiing but....

 

[skibum4ever]

If I hang up my skis it will not be by my choice but something that my body has forced me into. I don't know if I will ever derive as much joy from skiing as I have for the last 40 plus years. But I pray that I will still be able to do this thing that we all love so much.

 

[DanoT]

There are some very attractive day ski ticket alternatives available to the casual skier:
Buy a ticket online, in advance, and get up to 40% off at many resorts.

Buy a Ski and Stay package wherein the resort has sold a discounted wholesale priced ticket to a lodge, allowing the resort to still make a decent markup and the lodge can then offer a package that makes the lift ticket seem almost free.

 

[crgildart]

Ya the in advance and online options are nice, but pretty limited savings for peak weekend and holidays when these one day wonders are waking up and saying, "hey, let's go skiing!".

Should have planned ahead!

 

[Quandary]

All I can say is long term you are shooting yourself in the foot doing this. While you want to encourage multi-day or seasons passes (under the hope that you don't use them), but pricing yourself out of the day market you eliminates your true bread and butter.

For me its a time thing, have way to much other commitments/interest that doing on is not an option. Make it to the point that a day out costs me way more than that of other activities cost a year. I enjoy scuba while equipment is expensive tank fills cost way less and a week of diving costs less than a week of skiing. Guess which way my hard earned cash goes. Sorry resorts and ski equipment manufacturers you lose our.

Love my skiing but....

Its apparent to me that the major players in the ski resort industry are intentionally making the walk up ticket prices high to discourage people from using that form of ticket access. The pre-buy provides the resort owner with many benefits from free use of your cash to predictive modeling for resort activity.

 

[Snowflake2420]

I was pretty shocked a couple years ago running into a family on the Copper gondola who weren't aware or didn't know about pre-purchasing tickets. When they ski in PA they just show up and buy a ticket, exactly what we did when I grew up in PA. They were blown away by the window price in Colorado. I was so shocked someone wouldn't know about pre-purchasing I had to control my reaction to not be insulting, however, I guess if you are not planning pretty far in advance and not plugged into the ski social media and industry then not being aware can still happen?

In terms of mega ski corps catering to the avid skier and therefore not growing their customer based. I think some of this is masked by other demographic shifts, such as rapidly growing western states and the high incomes concentrating in ski country, while the outdoors is instagram worthy. Curious what it will look like in 20 years with income inequality, decreased birth rate, increased investment to ski, snow conditions deteriorating. It could be really bad or just slightly worse than today.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Ya the in advance and online options are nice, but pretty limited savings for peak weekend and holidays when these one day wonders are waking up and saying, "hey, let's go skiing!".

Should have planned ahead!
View attachment 177069

Very insulting actually, because of schedules and family issues, a lot of things change last minute and are a lets do this NOW.

Let the industry shoot itself in the foot and ultimately loose money. Consumers will only be pushed so far before they push back and spend less or spend it elsewhere.

Don't forget those of us that are last minute bring friends and family, make it to difficult or costly.....well other activities come to mind and swing the tide to the new activity.

I've gotten back into Scuba (enjoy it almost as much as skiing) and it cost less. Go figure.

 

[crgildart]

Very insulting actually, because of schedules and family issues, a lot of things change last minute and are a lets do this NOW.

Let the industry shoot itself in the foot and ultimately loose money. Consumers will only be pushed so far before they push back and spend less or spend it elsewhere.

Don't forget those of us that are last minute bring friends and family, make it to difficult or costly.....well other activities come to mind and swing the tide to the new activity.

I've gotten back into Scuba (enjoy it almost as much as skiing) and it cost less. Go figure.

Exactly.. If you're not thinking skiing 24/7 practically year round you're going to get gouged these days..

And it's not just the predictive modeling that has resorts pushing the online and mega pass transactions over ticket windows.. It's automation and replacing human employees.. Self check out... rifd gates instead of ticket checkers. etc..

Future Shock..

 

[crgildart]

Anyway, the point of the thread is have they considered the gear sales aspect of the laggards soured on the new way the insistry economy works when those folks just walk away rather than adapting, to buying tickets and passes in advance?

 

[raytseng]

Although the economics of passes has changed with pricing barriers to go casual skiing; the Pie (population) has also changed as well.
So even though a higher % of casuals are getting priced out, the pie is bigger, and megapass system is faster to capture the slice of affluent people and convert them to full-passholders (efficiently filtering out the have-nots).
I think the industry stats say active skiers and skierdays have stayed steady or increased (while population has increased even faster, and # of ski areas have decreased). This skier mix as others mentioned are more likely to buy more gear than the casuals even if the # of skiers is the same.
So it's a bit like housing gentrification with population growth and a limited supply, the have-nots lose out. Anyway, that's why I don't think gear sales have soured, but probably also have stayed steady or increased (also adding in any efficiency gains in production as well).

 

[crgildart]

Although the economics of passes has changed with pricing barriers to go casual skiing; the Pie (population) has also changed as well.
So even though a higher % of casuals are getting priced out, the pie is bigger, and megapass system is faster to capture the slice of affluent people and convert them to full-passholders (efficiently filtering out the have-nots).
I think the industry stats say active skiers and skierdays have stayed steady or increased (while population has increased even faster, and # of ski areas have decreased). This skier mix as others mentioned are more likely to buy more gear than the casuals even if the # of skiers is the same.
So it's a bit like housing gentrification with population growth and a limited supply, the have-nots lose out. Anyway, that's why I don't think gear sales have soured, but probably also have stayed steady or increased (also adding in any efficiency gains in production as well).

This is spot on.. What's missing is long term. How are new skiers coming in to the market except by affluent procreation? The level of investment to get started is substantial, and the super value learn to ski packages are fewer and farther between.. That's mostly due to the decline/demise of mom and pop resorts and consolidation of the megas..

Gentrification is a pretty good metaphor of the scenario, but too political to really discuss here..

The fact is that for now, the all in's are buying way more gear than they did before the value passes.. That replaces the occasional day trippers and toe dipping beginners getting priced out.... for now..

 

[Wilhelmson]

Ya the in advance and online options are nice, but pretty limited savings for peak weekend and holidays when these one day wonders are waking up and saying, "hey, let's go skiing!".

Should have planned ahead!
View attachment 177069

I agree but if my kid gets invited to ski at Stowe (with girls) what are we supposed to do? Can’t plan everything.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Well let me throw some numbers out.

Resort Down South, all inclusive (all meals, drinks and flight), $1100 to $1500 a person (ours is $1340), diving (equipment some supply and some don't) for the week, $120 to $500 (ours is about $220 ours includes equipment if you need it, lucky here, most include the tanks and air fr each dive). Total $1580 per person (8 nights)

Banff on resort, tickets included (cost about $350) meals extra. About $2300 per person. Food and drink $120 per day per person (likely more). Flight about $500 to $1000 (lets be thrifty here). Bring your own equipment. Total $3760 per person (7 nights)

So whats wrong with this picture, considering the distance from home to either resort is about the same, one includes flights, one doesn't, one includes meals & drinks, one doesn't.

Sure makes one think about the cost of skiing is a little out of hand (aside from tickets depend how bought) is completely insane in structure. We are the only game in town, to bad, so sad.

 

[Quandary]

We can play this game all day. Let's see pickleball - racket $60, shoes $100, court time $0, total cost $160. Basketball - ball - $30, shoes $100, court time $0, total cost $130. I guess that means pickleball and basket ball are better than golf and scuba. I could go on, but the point is made. There are plenty of alternative activities that one could choose and ways to go about it with varying costs. Perhaps the most extreme example is golf. Set of clubs at Play It Again sports $200, muni greens fee $25..... New clubs from golf shop $2,500, nice club in Scottsdale $100K buy in, $30k/year dues.....

 

[crgildart]

We can play this game all day. Let's see pickleball - racket $60, shoes $100, court time $0, total cost $160. Basketball - ball - $30, shoes $100, court time $0, total cost $130. I guess that means pickleball and basket ball are better than golf and scuba. I could go on, but the point is made. There are plenty of alternative activities that one could choose and ways to go about it with varying costs. Perhaps the most extreme example is golf. Set of clubs at Play It Again sports $200, muni greens fee $25..... New clubs from golf shop $2,500, nice club in Scottsdale $100K buy in, $30k/year dues.....

But if you use the gear 5X a year for 10 years that's total gear cost gear/50... + venue access per use..

 

[twomartinis]

Gentrification is a pretty good metaphor of the scenario, but too political to really discuss here..

TLDR: agreed. Skiing is becoming ever less accessible for anyone (esp.kids) who might want to "give skiing a try"

Winded, rose-colored glasses version: I never would have tried skiing if it weren't for the $35 school bus ski trips in 6th grade (including rentals!). Money was really tight when I was young and you'd have the same odds asking for caviar vs. going skiing. But I did have a paper route and that pocket cash got me close enough to make it work. Most of my friends had their own gear, didn't have to think about money, etc. but I would manage to hang with them even though I missed 2 runs because I had to go through the rental hut. By 3:30 I'd be completely gassed, soaking wet & freezing; but that last power-snowplow-bomber run was.... Freedom! Exactly what Warren Miller was talking about.

Fast forward four decades and my own kids are basically like my childhood friends; but I worry or anyone (esp.kids) that just can't swing the $130-$150 it takes for a [east coast] lift ticket and rental nowadays. It seems group-discount-ticket-window days have gone the way of the dinosaur too (at least that's what my beer drinking ski club buddies say).

 

[Tricia]

When I learned to ski, I was asked to be a regular chaperone for my high school’s ski club. (I was a teacher). So I got a free season pass. Were it not for that, I never would have learned to ski on a teacher’s salary. Now I can afford trips, etc, but still, I think about the price increases and cringe, and feel sad for younger folks who don’t have 6 figure incomes.

I had a similar experience, except that I had started to ski but kinda stopped skiing until my nephew asked me to chaperone his ski nights with his school, then I ended up taking the whole programe over and revamping it.
Kids are contagious in a very good way.