How many adjustments needed after major bootwork?

[Wasatchman]

Just had a new ski boot liners molded/cooked and was in total agony from a hotspot near the instep/ankle in one of my ski boots after only one hour. I realize it takes time for new liners to break-in, but pain was significant enough that I'm unfortunately going to have to go back to the bootfitter for an adjustment. Wife just got fitted for new boots, and same situation as me.

Got me thinking, a stiff/performance fit is great, but it makes the margin of error much smaller and risk of a lot more pain if there is anything just slightly off. When I got new ski boots, I needed about 4 trips to the bootfitter for adjustments to get things dialed in really comfortably.

Curious on other people's experience. After getting major bootwork done or getting new ski boots worked on, how many return trips to the bootfitter on average do people need to get the boots really dialed in?

Secondly, how many people just decide the performance boost from a stiffer locked in feel isn't worth the risk of comfort issues, and prefer just to stay with a packed out liner, looser fit, or whatnot because it is comfortable at that point and don't want to risk pain issues for a higher performing fit?

The performance boost is sure great when I finally get things dialed in, but it never seems to go right on day 1 and always seems to require that I make some return trips to the bootfitter for adjustments to get there.

 

[David Chaus]

Two return visits for me. A couple of factors that helped are that I was thorough about trying different boots and starting with a shell fit (taking liners out and measuring or eyeballing how much room I had where). After choosing the boot and doing the initial fitting and canting andjustments, I also took notes on what I was experiencing when skiing, and had electrician’s tape with me to mark the hot spots, so it made it easier for my bootfitter to fix things.

I have a very close fit, that said my boots fit very comfortably. When I put them on I pull my booster strap snug and buckle up to normal skiing mode, then leave them alone the rest of the day until I remove them.

 

[Mike75]

1 to 2 return trips is the norm for me. Which is why my bootfitter now is at the base of my home mountain. Have done the flatland bootfitter route in the past and found it less than optimal as I couldn't pop in in the middle of the day and get an adjustment.

 

[CalG]

after initial "fit", and that means just about unbearably tight, 20 days on snow starts to show liner pack out and overall boot fit.
That's the time to get some work done on the plastic. Certainly early intervention can be warranted when specific, localized correction is needed.

Persistent red marks on the skin, persistent tingling or aching, are sure signs to do something. My recent boots have required cold punching at the navicular, and hot punching to gain 2 mm width across the forefoot. The boot fitter asked why I didn't select a boot that fit my foot ;-)

I am always impressed by just how much boot liners "pack out". What was "unbearable" at first, is sloppy at seasons end. Thanks be to adjustable buckles!

 

[David Chaus]

The boot fitter asked why I didn't select a boot that fit my foot ;-)
[Good question.]

I am always impressed by just how much stock boot liners "pack out".

FIFY.
And that is why you need an Intuition or other aftermarket liner that doesn’t pack out. The Intuition liners can be reheated/remolded several times.

IMHO if there are hotspots, at any point, make an appointment with your bootfitter. Don’t wait for 20 skiing days. Also don’t buy a boot that needs the liners to be packed out in order to be skied comfortably.

 

[David Chaus]

The boot fitter asked why I didn't select a boot that fit my foot ;-)
[Good question.]

I am always impressed by just how much stock boot liners "pack out".

FIFY.
And that is why you need an Intuition or other aftermarket liner that doesn’t pack out. The Intuition liners can be reheated/remolded several times.

Also, don’t wait to see your bootfitter if there’s a hotspot or something hurts. Buying a boot and expecting it to fit well after the liner packs out is a sure sign the boot will never fit well.

 

[Jilly]

2 for me. 2 black big toes...at least they matched as a pair.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My fitter stickers my boots when I get them so I get unlimited tweaks as needed. Usually two tweaks or so after the fitting seems to be the norm for me though.

Nick suggested a stiffer boot for me last year and with some tweaks right off the bat I felt a game changing improvement in my connection to the skis. I had to go back for a couple more tweaks that season and this season I'm on 2 more tweaks. Think they are pretty perfect now. Hoping for a couple more seasons out of them.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I like to adjust mine slowly since you can't put the plastic back. I'll suffer for a bit and go back a couple of times.

 

[François Pugh]

My old race boots fit like a second skin and I can wear them all day, but I had to cut the bottom of the too-tight liners out to let them expand; the fitter may have done some further work, but he was unavailable to finish the job. They are also too cold to wear on many days up here where it often gets cold. Before doing the liner work I had given up on them and they lived in my closet for decades. Liners now starting to fade and crumble through the busted seems.

The last time I bought boots, learned that a fit guarantee means you can keep coming back, spending your money on gasoline and your time as many times as you like, but doesn't mean the boot will ever fit. I gave up after six trips or so. My Crossmax thermo-fit liners eventually did pack out in the heel pocket, but they are still as tight as ever in the main part of my foot, cutting off circulation if I wear socks. The tight spot acts like a fulcrum as my foot teeter-totters inside the shell. The liners allow for two positions: skiing, and back seat. Every time I get off the lift, I have to consciously move my feet back in the shells (probably only a few mm, but feels like an inch).

My old race boots fit like a second skin and I can wear them all day, but I had to cut the bottom of the too-tight liners out to let them expand; the fitter may have done some further work, but he was unavailable to finish the job. They are also too cold to wear on many days up here where it often gets cold.

That's why I've done some research on WHO is a good boot fitter for my next pair.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@François Pugh, you really need new boots. Have you found your bootfitter yet?
End of season means stock will be low (boots on sale, but fewer options).
Sounds like you don't know yet if you have hard-to-fit feet, and might need a fully stocked shop to find the right shell.

 

[CalG]

FIFY.
And that is why you need an Intuition or other aftermarket liner that doesn’t pack out. The Intuition liners can be reheated/remolded several times.

IMHO if there are hotspots, at any point, make an appointment with your bootfitter. Don’t wait for 20 skiing days. Also don’t buy a boot that needs the liners to be packed out in order to be skied comfortably.

I run Intuition Power Wrap overlaps, I have been doing so for over 15 years on no fewer than four ski boots. ( I must have 6 sets of liners kicking around)
I've tired of "heat forming" the liner. That is for those who do not get a chance to ski enough. Plus I have a rather high tolerance for discomfort and No tolerance for a sloppy fit. The as delivered liners seem to mold to my foot well in the first week or two of use. But the Intuitions don't arrive at the "minimal material condition" until sometime later. As mentioned, Usually near the end of a full season.. Right now thats pushing 85 days, (with the recent snow, four more weeks is almost assured ;-)

I recall when I first skied my Head WC boots, I thought I would get heel spurs. The pinch in the heel pocket was that tight and PAINFUL. Now, those boots fit like bedroom slippers. And ski like Head WCs! ;-)

I can tell by your comments that we look at boot fit from differing perspectives. That's GOOD!

 

[David Chaus]

Hmmm.....there’s no way that regular use of liners in ski boots will shape them any where as much as heat molding. The ovens cooks them at 119C, or 246F and they really expand at that temperature, then mold to your foot and shell when they cool. The heat and pressure inside your boot during regular use simply does not generate enough heat and pressure to really shape them to their potential. I also personally don’t think it works best as a DIY project.

I’ve got 30 days at least this season on my Tecnica boots with Intuition Race FX (tongue) liners, and they fit exactly the same as Day 1. The Intuition liners were bought in between my first and second follow-up boot fitting sessions, and solved a few fitting issues, though I bought them primarily for the warmth over the stock liners.

 

[CalG]

David

Your experience and mine differ.
Elevated temperature is not required for foam displacement nor compression. Time and pressure suffice. At least that is my experience over many boots and many years.
After 30 days on the liners, the fit is the same as day 1? really? My experience differs. Perhaps I started with a closer fit at the beginning.

 

[T-Square]

Normal returns for adjustments for me is one, maybe two. I normally get new boots well before the season. Wear them for 10 - 20 hours around the house; I keep a log. Then go back to take care of hot spots. By doing this I normally don’t have to go back for in season adjustments. Plus I don’t have pain and other problems screwing up my ski days.

 

[markojp]

I run Intuition Power Wrap overlaps, I have been doing so for over 15 years on no fewer than four ski boots. ( I must have 6 sets of liners kicking around)
I've tired of "heat forming" the liner. That is for those who do not get a chance to ski enough. Plus I have a rather high tolerance for discomfort and No tolerance for a sloppy fit. The as delivered liners seem to mold to my foot well in the first week or two of use. But the Intuitions don't arrive at the "minimal material condition" until sometime later. As mentioned, Usually near the end of a full season.. Right now thats pushing 85 days, (with the recent snow, four more weeks is almost assured ;-)

I recall when I first skied my Head WC boots, I thought I would get heel spurs. The pinch in the heel pocket was that tight and PAINFUL. Now, those boots fit like bedroom slippers. And ski like Head WCs! ;-)

I can tell by your comments that we look at boot fit from differing perspectives. That's GOOD!

I have to ask, if you're trying to optimize a performance fit, why are you not in an injected foam liner? Honestly, I can't imagine being able to get a power wrap into a Head plug boot. Heck, I can't get them into my regular raptors...

 

[CalG]

I have to ask, if you're trying to optimize a performance fit, why are you not in an injected foam liner? Honestly, I can't imagine being able to get a power wrap into a Head plug boot. Heck, I can't get them into my regular raptors...

Mark

I've had and have "performance boots", and now make selections from other criteria. There are many reasons I choose optional features such as Grip Walk sole, walk mode, and easy on and off. Cabrio construction , while not perfect, serves me well. Even if narrow lasted ;-)

Life is too short to let ski boots be a "one trick pony".