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Higher edge angles

Magi

Instructor
Instructor
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Apr 8, 2017
Posts
404
Location
Winter Park, Colorado
1. Softer flexing skis that don't resist being bent into a curve.
2. Narrow skis (<70 mm) that are easier to tip on edge on hard snow.
3. Sharp edges.
4. Hard snow that will support your weight when skis are tipped to a high angle.
5. Upper body separation including angulation and rotational separation.
6. Get that inside knee out of the way.
7. Make sure you are pulling your feet behind you.
8. Make sure you are tipping that inside foot onto its little toe edge.
9. When the outside ski is nicely loaded up make a sudden flex to release move that will shoot you into the next turn with a big edge angle PDQ (pretty damn quick). Careful with this one.
Drills:
Dragging outside pole in longer turns is a start.
Picture frame drill (for rotational separation).
Horizontal poles held in front with same horizontal alignment as horizon and your shoulders and keeping a vertical spine (for angulation).


9. Sudden flexion movements on a loaded ski is potentially stupidly dangerous for someone at any age and at the age of 77 could result in serious injury or actually end your life. Please be really careful with this advice.
8, 7, 6, 5: While all of these statements vaguely resemble parts of effective skiing - these aren't the parts that let you create higher edge angles.
Inclination and Angulation with a hefty dose of lateral balance (aka foot to foot pressure) at *high speed* create high edge angles.​
Inclination [moving the CoM to laterally] tips the skis relative to the snow and creates edge angles.​
Moving the CoM to the inside of the turn *must happen* in a carved turn at any significant speed (or you fall to the outside, potentially very very hard).​
Angulation (tipping the skis relative to the CoM *and* the snow at the same time without moving the CoM laterally) is what creates grip and starts bending the ski.​
Angulating *first* and then inclining will make sure the ski bends early in the turn and you have the ability to carve the entire turn.​
The bottom line for creating high edge angles though - is go fast and incline hard. (You can reduce the speed you need to reach a given angle by adding angulation). The caution is that inclining too far, or inclining not enough will both result in a fall.​
4. See below - this is mostly false.
3. Consistently sharpened (aka smooth and the same angles) are more important than what angle you're at.
2. A narrower pair of skis is good advice. Also make sure that they are torsionally rigid (they don't twist side to side when loaded up).
1. Please find me a pair of skis that don't bend when you apply 130+ pounds of pressure to the middle of them while supporting them at the two widest points of the ski.

Drills - none of the above are going to get you what you want. Outside pole drags might help you with keeping your body more over your outside ski - but they won't teach you the fundamental angulation movements and you can cheat them pretty easily. Both of the pole drills will let you cheat (trivially) and not have your hips where you want them. "Separation" doesn't create high performance carved turns.

Instead, please try: Creating a two footed railroad track turns on flat terrain with and without inclining, carved arcs up and down hill in a traverse, Crab Walks (done to go in a straight line, *and* to create deflection across the hill), and then blend the crab walks into carved turns.
@Pete in Idaho looking at your avatar, that snow will not support high edge angles. A flat ski is supported vertically by the area of snow under the ski, which is the base area. A ski tipped to 90 degrees is supported vertically by the area of snow under the ski which is the edge area. Between 0 and 90 degrees the area under the ski varies (as the cosine of the angle), and force is pressure times area. The vertical (up) force must be able to support your entire weight, and you need enough area under the ski for that.
Maybe you don't use high edge angles because they are not appropriate for your conditions.

Soft snow can certainly support high edge angle. Your explanation is leaving out the fact that you're making a turn so this is a dynamic system. The "Area" under the ski doesn't have to change when you're in 3d snow and the ski is immersed in it, and bent. Random image I found in 10s as proof.

1581051470830.png
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,730
Location
New England
@Magi, you clearly know your stuff. But so does @François Pugh.

But you find something wrong with every single thing in that other post. You leave nothing as it stands. Are you sure you want to be that negative?
 
Last edited:

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,688
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
Yes, a tipped ski in a turn in soft snow will have the whole area providing force, but a lot of that force, the horizontal component of that force, is providing the turn force. It is only the vertical component of that force that is preventing gravity from sucking you to the bottom of the snow. It's called vector addition.

I did say to be careful with # 8. It is fun though.

As to the rest, I will agree to agree to disagree.
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,564
HEA isn't something forced but acquired through balanced skiing.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Pete in Idaho

Pete in Idaho

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
1,132
Location
St. Maries - Northern Idaho
Yes, a tipped ski in a turn in soft snow will have the whole area providing force, but a lot of that force, the horizontal component of that force, is providing the turn force. It is only the vertical component of that force that is preventing gravity from sucking you to the bottom of the snow. It's called vector addition.

I did say to be careful with # 8. It is fun though.

As to the rest, I will agree to agree to disagree.

#8 is fun. Have been skiing a lot lately (2-4 powder) on my Elan Ripstick 96 skis and I can really #8 them fun time. Wish I could have #8 my old race skis like this back 35 yrs ago, would have won more races.
 

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