Edge Bevels redux: 1 and 2 vs 1 and 3?

[Tominator]

I know this is a similar question to others that have been previously posted, but I'm purposely not making this question equipment/location-specific, because I want people to describe what they think the difference is in terms of performance, feel, and forgiveness rather that what's 'best'. Thanks!

 

[DocGKR]

1/3 is very versatile and will work for most conditions with many skis.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Lets make this a little easier (in very general terms).

Base bevel is how quickly a ski responds as it is put on edge. In this case a 4 is very slow to respond and very forgiving and 0.5 is very quick.

Side bevel controls the grip or how aggressively it bites into the snow or ice. A 1 side is the minimum, a 4 or 5 is very aggressive.

Now forgiveness and performance whike tgey can be defined by each individually are best defined by both simultaneously.

A 1/3 is relatively forgiving and 0.5/4 not so much. In terms of performance it is reversed.

 

[François Pugh]

@oldschoolskier pretty much nailed it, but to add a little more detail and subjectivity put in your context....
The base bevel being 1 means it will be pretty forgiving, requiring a larger tipping angle before the edge engages than say a 0.5 degree bevel, but not as forgiving as a 1.5 degree base bevel. The 3 side bevel will bite harder once engaged than the 2, just because the included angle is more acute (edge is pointier). How that translates to feel is that when you want to scrape sideways, like say in mogul skiing (short radius turn as the primary tool), it will be easier with the 2 side, but when you want to carve clean turns with no sideways component of velocity, it will be easier with the 3 side.

 

[Tominator]

Excellent replies - thanks! OK, full disclosure:
For years I happily skied on 1 & 3. Then my 2015 Fischer Progressor 900's were tuned at .75 & 3; made them quick to engage, but I had to stay focused. They sure didn't like to skid! My new skis, 2019 Atomic Vantage X83 CTi's, I think come from the factory with 1 & 2. They're very maneuverable, but I feel like I have to angulate somewhat aggressively to get them to bite (though they do bite). I ski exclusively in the East, mostly on smooth, steep, and firm terrain. So, I'm going back to 1 & 3 for next season. Case closed - thanks again!

 

[oldschoolskier]

@oldschoolskier pretty much nailed it, but to add a little more detail and subjectivity put in your context....
The base bevel being 1 means it will be pretty forgiving, requiring a larger tipping angle before the edge engages than say a 0.5 degree bevel, but not as forgiving as a 1.5 degree base bevel. The 3 side bevel will bite harder once engaged than the 2, just because the included angle is more acute (edge is pointier). How that translates to feel is that when you want to scrape sideways, like say in mogul skiing (short radius turn as the primary tool), it will be easier with the 2 side, but when you want to carve clean turns with no sideways component of velocity, it will be easier with the 3 side.

Thanks, it is easy to write to much and get lost in details. This is what makes this site so good as we do support each other.

 

[jzmtl]

0.5/3 is how all my skis are tune, at least that's what I ask for at the shop. Good grip and response for eastern hardpack, does okay in crud and slush, although I have tripped myself a few times on green or flat terrains.

 

[Henry]

...my 2015 Fischer Progressor 900's were tuned at .75 & 3; made them quick to engage, but I had to stay focused.

A middle ground is to have the bottoms at .7 or .75 but with the front 12" or so and the back 6" feathered to 1°. This makes them require less precision and easier to ski but still excellent grip. Try this for a year, then next tune go to .7 or .75 all the way.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I set all
My skis to 0.5/4, its just a matter of getting used to it and you’ll never go back.

 

[Atomicman]

@oldschoolskier pretty much nailed it, but to add a little more detail and subjectivity put in your context....
The base bevel being 1 means it will be pretty forgiving, requiring a larger tipping angle before the edge engages than say a 0.5 degree bevel, but not as forgiving as a 1.5 degree base bevel. The 3 side bevel will bite harder once engaged than the 2, just because the included angle is more acute (edge is pointier). How that translates to feel is that when you want to scrape sideways, like say in mogul skiing (short radius turn as the primary tool), it will be easier with the 2 side, but when you want to carve clean turns with no sideways component of velocity, it will be easier with the 3 side.

Dammit Francois....side bevel has no effect on the ski sliding sideways. You are all confused here. Side slipping or redirecting is 100% about base bevel. I can slide my FIS slaloms sideways with a 4 degree SIDE BEVEL until the cows come home AS LONG AS THE HAVE BASE BEVEL.

" How that translates to feel is that when you want to scrape sideways, like say in mogul skiing (short radius turn as the primary tool), it will be easier with the 2 side, but when you want to carve clean turns with no sideways component of velocity, it will be easier with the 3 side." NO NO AND NO!!!!!

 

[Jacques]

Truth^ I slide slide slippty slide on 1-4 . It's the 1 that makes it easy. Hitting a soft pile with the side of the ski with a 4 will cut into it a bit more, so there is that. So mostly true to fully true IMHO.

 

[François Pugh]

Base bevel does make much more difference, having changed from 1 base to 0.5 base with 3 side on my Fischers. However, I can feel the difference between 1 side, 2 side, with a 1 degree base on my Volants. I have skied numerous skis with 3 and 2 side as well. More better grip = less easier sliding. The more grip you have to manage, the harder it is to manage. Maybe it's the Koflachs that let me feel the difference, or maybe the more precise Ontario snow.

 

[Max Capacity]

FWIW, A lot of us have been doing are skis at 1/3 for many years, since back on Epicski.com in the early 2000's.

Don't over think this.

 

[Tom K.]

1/3 88 mm waist and down, 1/2 wider.

I've been all over the map quite some time ago, and ended up here.

 

[Dakine]

Base bevel really changes how things ski.
Side bevel angle isn't nearly as important as how sharp the edge is.
A sharp 2 skis more aggressively than a dull 4.

 

[Marker]

1/3 88 mm waist and down, 1/2 wider.

I've been all over the map quite some time ago, and ended up here.

My Ranger 115's are at 1/3 only because that's how they came from Fischer. In two years, I only have about 5 days on them, but since I got them at close-out I'd do it again... lol. Very fun when the snow is deep. My wife's Sky 7 are at 1/2, but even she skis her Temptations at 1/3. She complements her "equipment manager" all the time!

 

[BClipped]

I’ve heard enough times about the performance differences of 0.5 vs 1.0 base bevel that I believe it 100%. But still I can’t convince my logical brain how a half degree of base edge can affect the ski so dramatically when a typical ski angle must be 20+ degrees in a turn, even for intermediate carving...

 

[ScottB]

I think the low or high bevel angle is about how perfectly flat do your skis have to be to the snow so they won't engage. Don't think of it in terms of turn angles, but rather keep the ski flat angle. A 3 deg base bevel would let you "rock" the skis a bit before anything happens. If you have a zero base bevel (like in the old days) the skis engage with very little rolling on edge. I would guess you would still need a few degrees of roll before the edges bit in, but just a couple of degrees would get you slarving.

 

[mdf]

I think the low or high bevel angle is about how perfectly flat do your skis have to be to the snow so they won't engage. Don't think of it in terms of turn angles, but rather keep the ski flat angle. A 3 deg base bevel would let you "rock" the skis a bit before anything happens. If you have a zero base bevel (like in the old days) the skis engage with very little rolling on edge. I would guess you would still need a few degrees of roll before the edges bit in, but just a couple of degrees would get you slarving.

This makes sense.
Remember when we used to "catch an edge" and fall? Doesn't happen much anymore.
A few years ago I took my old K2 KVC's out for a giggle and guess what? I caught an edge!

 

[Atomicman]

I’ve heard enough times about the performance differences of 0.5 vs 1.0 base bevel that I believe it 100%. But still I can’t convince my logical brain how a half degree of base edge can affect the ski so dramatically when a typical ski angle must be 20+ degrees in a turn, even for intermediate carving...

It's not about the angle once the ski is on edge, it is about the amount of ski tip to get to be on edge.