Dogs in the backcountry

[OldSchool47]

Unleashed and leashed dogs degrade my ski experience when they approach me when I XC ski in national forests and BLM areas. They disrupt my kick-and-glide rhythm. Skiing around dog feces throws off my rhythm. Unleashed dogs sometimes follow me when I ski downhill through trees. Occasionally dogs growl at me.

Are dog owners required by state and/or federal law to leash their dog in national forests and BLM areas in the U.S.?

If they are, are owners required by law to keep their leashed dog a certain distance from another person unless that person verbally or with body language invites the dog to approach him?

Are dog owners required by law to pick up their dog’s (leashed or unleashed) feces after he defecates?

I need to know. All backcountry skiers need to know. Snoopy needs to know. No such thing as a bad dog …

 

[Paul Lutes]

Not familiar with this new fangled internet thingy?
Try petfriendlytravel.com
General rule for fed. land: parks require dogs on leash and under control, but in forests they can be off-leash except in "well developed areas".
States lands are on a case by case basis.
While I agree that there's a lot of irresponsible dog owners, you seem a little agitated - extended New Year's hang over??

 

[scott43]

I'm a bit torn on this..my ma let's her dog run in the bush and it craps wherever it feels like it. Which is kind of offensive to me. But then I turn a corner on the trail and there's a pile of bear scat the size of my head. And there's deer crap everywhere in the back 40 of the house. So while I do understand, there is also wild poop to contend with. It's a bit of a mixed bag..I'll go with on-leash and clean up your dog's crap generally. Especially if you're in a groomed trail area.

As for nasty dogs, that's why water bottles can also contain some ammonia...

 

[Monique]

There was an opinion piece on this recently in powder magazine: http://www.powder.com/stories/opinion/opinion-leave-dog-home/

In Colorado, National Forest is typically off-leash legal unless otherwise specified. There's also a cultural element around most mountain towns - legal or not, dogs tend to be off leash. You could go to national parks - where dogs aren't allowed at all on the trails.

I go to great lengths to collect my dogs' poop. But @scott43 , have you ever tried holding one or two dogs' leashes while using poles? That's what you'd have to do for snowshoeing or XC. It's not reasonable, and you run the risk of stabbing the dog with a snowshoe tooth or slicing it with an edge. You don't actually want the dog super close to these devices.

 

[Tricia]

We normally walk Ziggy off leash, but will take a leash with us just in case we need to put him on it.
He won't poop where people go, but if he does, we pick it up.
One of the things that bothers me is when I see a dog poop bag full, laying on the trail. I mean, why bother picking it up if you're going to leave it behind, IN A BAG??

 

[Monique]

We normally walk Ziggy off leash, but will take a leash with us just in case we need to put him on it.
He won't poop where people go, but if he does, we pick it up.
One of the things that bothers me is when I see a dog poop bag full, laying on the trail. I mean, why bother picking it up if you're going to leave it behind, IN A BAG??

People do this to pick it up on the way back.

Obviously they don't always remember, or can't find it.

I was going to put together an app to mark the location of the poop bags you left, so that you would be reminded on the way back, but like so many ideas .... I fully agree that seeing a poop bag on the side of the trail is not my favorite hiking/snow experience.

 

[Tricia]

People do this to pick it up on the way back.

Obviously they don't always remember, or can't find it.

I was going to put together an app to mark the location of the poop bags you left, so that you would be reminded on the way back, but like so many ideas .... I fully agree that seeing a poop bag on the side of the trail is not my favorite hiking/snow experience.

I don't mean to sound like a critic, but I find it in obvious places that are on a loop walk where people don't necessarily come back to that spot, because its a loop.
I find it too frequently to be the occasional, "oops I forgot"

 

[scott43]

I go to great lengths to collect my dogs' poop. But @scott43 , have you ever tried holding one or two dogs' leashes while using poles? That's what you'd have to do for snowshoeing or XC. It's not reasonable, and you run the risk of stabbing the dog with a snowshoe tooth or slicing it with an edge. You don't actually want the dog super close to these devices.

I wasn't really advocating XC'ing with the dog on a leash. I get that people want to take the dog with them but sometimes it may be better to leave them at home. And I know there is a mountain town mentality with dogs and maybe it's a non-issue, can't say. I do know that with dogs and cycling, you never can tell if it's a friendly dog or not..you see them rocketing towards you and you just never know. It can be a big cause of anxiety for people. When I did country rides we often took some water/ammonia mix just in case. People try to brow-beat you for being cruel to animals but honestly, if someone's dog bites me, I don't really give a crap. The dog owner is entirely responsible for the dog's actions. And I'm a dog person!!

 

[newboots]

I bring mine hiking, but he can't go out for long in the winter. He's a Chihuahua. I clean up his poop, sometimes leaving the bag for the return trip (and I do remember to bring it home). He is on-leash whenever we're near other dogs, and I always ask people we encounter if they're okay with dogs. Then when they see him, they usually laugh.

When he gets tired, he just goes into my backpack. 6 pounds, no problem! He's 14, but he's good for 2 or more miles. He sleeps the rest of the trip.

 

[OldSchool47]

Not familiar with this new fangled internet thingy?
Try petfriendlytravel.com
General rule for fed. land: parks require dogs on leash and under control, but in forests they can be off-leash except in "well developed areas".
States lands are on a case by case basis.
While I agree that there's a lot of irresponsible dog owners, you seem a little agitated - extended New Year's hang over??

I am King. Pacifica (the Pacific Northwest) is my Kingdom. I allow dogs only in zones designated Dog Zone (DZ) in national forests, BLM areas, and wilderness areas in Pacifica.

20% of land in national forests, wilderness areas, and BLM areas is classed DZ. DZ A = leash required. DZ B = no leash required. The Largest DZ A is 10 miles x 15 miles.

Owners of dogs found in non DZ areas are fined $2,000 per offense. Owners of unleashed dogs in DZ A areas are fined $1,000 per offense.

The area that Steve is skiing on the cover of his book is what a non DZ "earn your turns" area looks like in Pacifica.

 

[SBrown]

 

[OldSchool47]

Looks like a happy dog. How old is the powder? 48 hours?

 

[Paul Lutes]

So you already new the answer, eh oldschool47? Nice troll, Mr Troll.

Well, I represent all the native fauna and feel that even more disruptive than dogs are ....
humans, especially oldschooler humans.

I was initially told that the new poop bags were hyper-composters so you could leave them on the trail and they'd breakdown in hours ......
Riiiiight.
Now it's, "oh, I'm picking it up on my way back". Riiiight.
Sorry - why take the chance of forgetting (all too common)?? Carry it with you all the way, in a second bag if you're that fastidious. No one enjoys seeing multiple bright yellow, purple, and pink full poop bags marinating on the trail side.
Under these conditions, I do not understand why bags are even used - why not just bury your dogs poop? In urban conditions, sure, bags are the removal method of choice, but out in the woods?? I always carry bags, but if some loose soil is available, that is a better option. You know, plastics (biodegradable or otherwise) and all.
If I poop in the woods, I don't bag it, I bury it - and I certainly don't bag it and leave on the side of the trail.
That would be rude.

 

[Monique]

I don't mean to sound like a critic, but I find it in obvious places that are on a loop walk where people don't necessarily come back to that spot, because its a loop.
I find it too frequently to be the occasional, "oops I forgot"

I'm sure you're right. But my thought - the reason I don't do dog parks unless they're covered in snow - is that if even one out of 100 screws up or is a bad actor, the impact is ... gross.

I do pick up my dogs' poop, even on hot days when it is stinky through the two ziplock bags I put it in. Part of the price of dog ownership, right?

Under these conditions, I do not understand why bags are even used - why not just bury your dogs poop? In urban conditions, sure, bags are the removal method of choice, but out in the woods?? I always carry bags, but if some loose soil is available, that is a better option. You know, plastics (biodegradable or otherwise) and all.

If it's off the trail and not a sensitive area (where they are very concerned about soil impact), I've used the burial approach. Human and canine. But I do believe they want you to avoid this because it can carry diseases, parasites, and non-indigenous plant matter. Now ... why the same concern never seems to apply to horses, I don't understand.

 

[nay]

Public land use rule #1:

Find another user to bitch about in order ascend the moral use ladder yourself.

 

[newboots]

So you already new the answer, eh oldschool47? Nice troll, Mr Troll.
I do not understand why bags are even used - why not just bury your dogs poop? In urban conditions, sure, bags are the removal method of choice, but out in the woods?? I always carry bags, but if some loose soil is available, that is a better option. You know, plastics (biodegradable or otherwise) and all.

Domesticated dogs have bacteria and parasites that disrupt the ecosystem.

 

[nay]

Now ... why the same concern never seems to apply to horses, I don't understand.

Because horse owners are at the top of the use ladder, and demonstrate as much by leaving a perpetual trail of feces in their wake.

You can't leave dung from a lower rung .

 

[Tom K.]

People do this to pick it up on the way back.

Obviously they don't always remember, or can't find it.

I think this is the case in the vast majority of cases.

Being a not-quite-perfect-dog-owner myself, I just grab these when I see them on occasion, and dispose of them properly.

Hoping somebody returns the favor the next time I forget.

As far as the title of the thread "dogs in the backcountry", it is hard to imagine greater joy than that of a good dog romping through the snow. I am a bit envious of the fact that my dog actually has more fun in pow than I do!

 

[Monique]

As far as the title of the thread "dogs in the backcountry", it is hard to imagine greater joy than that of a good dog romping through the snow. I am a bit envious of the fact that my dog actually has more fun in pow than I do!

This is the reason that, despite understanding that not everyone loves my dogs quite as much as I do, it's reaaaally hard to get onto a trail without them. I feel too guilty. And it feels too good to watch them porpoise through the snow.

I do miss our first winter renting in Breck. We rented a room in a house that backed onto what was essentially open space. We could hike or snowshoe with very few people to worry about.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Domesticated dogs have bacteria and parasites that disrupt the ecosystem.

Reference please; seems like there's more chance of migrating birds transferring possible nasties ......
In fact, I worry a lot more about my dog picking up a parasite or pathogen from "the wild" than visa versa.