Does the plate make the ski?

[Philpug]

Lets take a step back...if you don't want a plate on a GS ski...maybe it is not a GS ski that you want?

 

[Cheizz]

But it is. A cheater at least. I was just curious if one could say that a Master ski without a plate lies between a plated one and a regular cheater GS.

 

[Dakine]

Could it be that the plated skis you have skied are sharp and tuned to acute angles while the unplated ones are not tuned for racing?
Tune affects the way a ski works as much as anything else.

 

[James]

Why don’t you go with the Head/Fischer system? More of a riser.
You need lift. Bootout is dangerous.

 

[Cheizz]

Could it be that the plated skis you have skied are sharp and tuned to acute angles while the unplated ones are not tuned for racing?
Tune affects the way a ski works as much as anything else.

Could be. But I doubt that Brahma was tuned like that. I do think that my non-agressive skiing is just a mis-match to stiffer skis. I'm just looking for that one ski that doesné blow up my legs, but offers the edge hold and stability that most plated cheater GS skis do... I figured a more hefti ski but without the plate could do the trick.

 

[cantunamunch]

You're Dutch. Go skating.

Ski anything you want afterwards

 

[Cheizz]

I can't skate. Childhood trauma

 

[Mike King]

Did anyone read the review link I posted above? Specifically about the issue of plates on GS skis? Comments? Opinions?

Here's the link again... https://realskiers.com/ski-reviews/rx12-gs-2/

 

[cantunamunch]

I can't skate. Childhood trauma

OOOF. REALLY sorry to hear that.

Did anyone read the review link I posted above? Specifically about the issue of plates on GS skis? Comments? Opinions?

Here's the link again... https://realskiers.com/ski-reviews/rx12-gs-2/

Sure - what about it? It doesn't really say anything about what plate benefits are traded away, nor what actual drawbacks plates might have other than 'deadening feel'. *shrug*. Just last week I was watching a video about a guy with a Tesla S daily driver buying a VW-chassis kit car for more 'road feel'; I didn't really get behind that either.

I mean - it's all pretty much arbitrary, individual balance points between feel and power/comfort - for every person who likes a 68 mm ski without a plate there are several who insist that they're better off on a 80mm+ fat-GS without plates - and it's funny how few want the amount of feel 45mm skis provide (as both Elan and Anton have proven).

 

[James]

Did anyone read the review link I posted above? Specifically about the issue of plates on GS skis? Comments? Opinions?

Here's the link again... https://realskiers.com/ski-reviews/rx12-gs-2/

This?-
“Some of its superior fluidity has to be attributable to its lack of a racing plate or binding interface of any kind. The skier is closer to the snow, giving the RX12 GS a living pulse when pressured, unfiltered by extra layers of elastomers and metal”

You need lift.
The other, eh. I like plates. Be nice if we had some more development.
Original Volkl Energy plate - awesome. Plates for the masses.That Salomon Hangl plate was pretty cool for it’s time. Really smoothed out a sea of soft crud when I tried it.

For awhile in the 2000’s one could get maybe half a dozen plates.

 

[cantunamunch]

Be nice if we had some more development.

I totally want to try one of those Carpani things.

 

[James]

I totally want to try one of those Carpani things.

Don’t know that one. Just Capicola and Carpaccio.

 

[cantunamunch]

This looks a bit spicier than peppered capicollo.

Individual Review - 2020 Carpani F3 Master SL 175cm

Carpani F3 Master SL (2019-2020) 118-69-103 r=13m @ 165cm Manufacturer Info: Filippo Carpani Carpani Sci via della Casella, 5 40042 – Vidiciatico, Bologna Italy Tel & Fax +39 0534 53376 http://www.carpanisci.com Suggested Retail Price (MSRP): 699 € list - custom specs at additional cost...

www.pugski.com

 

[ARL67]

... if you don't want a plate on a GS ski...maybe it is not a GS ski that you want?

^^^ such a sublime rhetorical question is fortune-cookie worthy

 

[LiquidFeet]

....Here's the link again... https://realskiers.com/ski-reviews/rx12-gs-2/

I think the words in @Mike King's link warrant a full quote, given the topic of this thread. Buried in those words are the reviewer's understanding of what characteristics this particular GS ski has when it has no plate. Who knows, maybe the reviewer believes this applies to any GS ski without a plate. Bolds in red indicate what platelessness delivers.

"Against the backdrop of the other GS race skis in this genre, the Kästle RX12 GS stands out like a ballerina among lumberjacks. Some of its superior fluidity has to be attributable to its lack of a racing plate or binding interface of any kind.

The skier is closer to the snow, giving the RX12 GS a living pulse when pressured, unfiltered by extra layers of elastomers and metal. By elevating the skier on what amounts to a taller tower, a race plate takes the subtlety out of turning; once you tip the tower over, you’re committed to the ensuing high edge angle.

The lower altitude of the RX12 GS makes it easier for the skier to feather the edge throughout the turn, rather than relying on the brusque, all-in style elevation encourages. It’s this suppleness that makes the RX12 GS so versatile in terms of both turn shape and terrain adaptability, traits not usually found in a GS race ski.

All of its attributes considered in toto, the RX12 GS behaves more like a luxury cruiser than a brute gate basher.

It requires less energy to guide, less force to bend and a less aggro stance to engage."

 

[Dakine]

I just retired my first gen RX-12's
They certainly behave more like a luxury cruiser than a cheater GS.
His description of the ski coincides with mine.
These luxury cruisers were about 3% slower in a NASTAR course than my 18m Heros.
Mine were plated with a plate that I really like.
I really wonder if this guy skied the skis with both a plate and flat?
This IIRC plate came as a factory setup on first gen RX 12's
I like it so much I think I am going to put it on my new Augments...

 

[Mike King]

I just retired my first gen RX-12's
They certainly behave more like a luxury cruiser than a cheater GS.
His description of the ski coincides with mine.
These luxury cruisers were about 3% slower in a NASTAR course than my 18m Heros.
Mine were plated with a plate that I really like.
I really wonder if this guy skied the skis with both a plate and flat?
This IIRC plate came as a factory setup on first gen RX 12's
I like it so much I think I am going to put it on my new Augments...
View attachment 98868

View attachment 98869

I wasn't suggesting that the OP purchase a Kastle, even though I'm a fanboy. Rather, my intent was to draw attention to the review saying that that absence of the plate seemed to provide performance that more akin to what the OP seemed to be wanting -- a more fluid, versatile, and subtle performance that required less energy to drive. And the review, on a site known for the preference for technical skis, seems to attribute the performance to an ABSENCE of a plate. So, might one expect similar results from other GS cheater skis mounted without a plate?

 

[Philpug]

I think the words in @Mike King's link warrant a full quote, given the topic of this thread. Buried in those words are the reviewer's understanding of what characteristics this particular GS ski has when it has no plate. Who knows, maybe the reviewer believes this applies to any GS ski without a plate. Bolds in red indicate what platelessness delivers.

"Against the backdrop of the other GS race skis in this genre, the Kästle RX12 GS stands out like a ballerina among lumberjacks. Some of its superior fluidity has to be attributable to its lack of a racing plate or binding interface of any kind.

The skier is closer to the snow, giving the RX12 GS a living pulse when pressured, unfiltered by extra layers of elastomers and metal. By elevating the skier on what amounts to a taller tower, a race plate takes the subtlety out of turning; once you tip the tower over, you’re committed to the ensuing high edge angle.

The lower altitude of the RX12 GS makes it easier for the skier to feather the edge throughout the turn, rather than relying on the brusque, all-in style elevation encourages. It’s this suppleness that makes the RX12 GS so versatile in terms of both turn shape and terrain adaptability, traits not usually found in a GS race ski.

All of its attributes considered in toto, the RX12 GS behaves more like a luxury cruiser than a brute gate basher.

It requires less energy to guide, less force to bend and a less aggro stance to engage."

The RX12 is a very good recreational ski, it is not a race ski it is barely a Masters race ski. Nothing againts the ski at all but it's limits are where most of the other skis discussed in this thread jsut get started. maybe this is what the OP wants, a race ski in name only. Any GS ski worth it's salt. will either come with a real plate or have it available. Otherwise you might as well take a race car, remove the R compounds and put on some all season Michilens.

 

[François Pugh]

Just a thought.
GS race skis are designed to perform at their best under GS racing forces. Those forces are huge. Playing with those forces for hours would require amazing conditioning. Crack military unit team members in their prime (or Shorinji ryu shodans) maybe, everybody else will trash their legs in short order. Or you're not using the ski properly and forcing it through moves it wasn't designed to make, which can also be very tiring.

For free skiing all day, even at stupid speeds, maybe something like a Fischer RC would better suit?

 

[Mike King]

The RX12 is a very good recreational ski, it is not a race ski it is barely a Masters race ski. Nothing againts the ski at all but it's limits are where most of the other skis discussed in this thread jsut get started. maybe this is what the OP wants, a race ski in name only. Any GS ski worth it's salt. will either come with a real plate or have it available. Otherwise you might as well take a race car, remove the R compounds and put on some all season Michilens.

let me use an analogy. The op says I want a sports car, but does it really have to have a short wheel base, competition suspension, ceramic brakes, be difficult to get into, have no cup holder, and ride terribly? After all, I have to drive this thing on a 4 hour commute in stop and go traffic. You guys are telling him to man up, buy a Lamborghini that drags every time he goes over a speed bump with a ride so rough his kidneys feel beat up by the time he’s only a quarter way of the way to the office. He’s telling you he wants a bmw 5 series and you are trying to sell him a track car.

He’s not going to find a gs ski with a plate that meets his preference for not being willing to drive such a ski for more than a couple of hours a day. So a cheater gs ski without a plate is probably just the ticket. Theres lots of skis that could fit that Bill.

Mike