Discussion with Northstar patroller on injuries

[Calbearski]

On Tuesday I had a discussion with a patroller and he mentioned that most injuries occur with what he termed as beginner/intermediate skiers/boarders. He believed it was because they were going faster and didn’t have the control to manage that speed. So I am wondering, is this group statistically a high injury group or is it because Northstar gets a lot of beginning to intermediate skiers. Just curious.

 

[mdf]

I would think experts would have fewer injuries, but the ones they have will tend to be worse.

 

[Novaloafah]

Yah, I would think the frequency of injuries is higher with beginner/intermediate population as a whole. If a hill/resort has a high percentage of that population within their total customer base than I would expect you see more injuries. Expert skier/boarders on expert terrain probably do have a higher incidence of "severe" injuries in their overall injury totals. I'm betting a numbers god with access to injury data vs experience would produce some interesting graphics on likelihood of injury from beginner to expert and then severity (if you could quantify that) along the beginner to expert range.
I really need to step away from the screen and go skiing!

 

[Eleeski]

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2017/03/26/7-surprising-facts-ski-deaths-injuries/

To improve safety, improve your skills. Note that a lot of skill improvement is knowing exactly what you can and cannot handle and adjusting your skiing to that.

The best athletes in most sports are the ones who rarely get hurt. Even Lindsey Vonn never got hurt severely enough to end her career (retiring after a LONG career with a WC medal!). Note that WC athletes are pushing all the limits every race and still have a fairly manageable injury rate.

Ski more. Take lessons. Make improving your skills and judgement a priority. Get quality equipment that fits and suits you. That should keep you out of a sled.

Eric

 

[mdf]

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2017/03/26/7-surprising-facts-ski-deaths-injuries/

To improve safety, improve your skills. Note that a lot of skill improvement is knowing exactly what you can and cannot handle and adjusting your skiing to that.

The best athletes in most sports are the ones who rarely get hurt. Even Lindsey Vonn never got hurt severely enough to end her career (retiring after a LONG career with a WC medal!). Note that WC athletes are pushing all the limits every race and still have a fairly manageable injury rate.

Ski more. Take lessons. Make improving your skills and judgement a priority. Get quality equipment that fits and suits you. That should keep you out of a sled.

Eric

None of those "surprising" facts surprise me. I do wish they identified sources for their numbers.

 

[pais alto]

I would think experts would have fewer injuries, but the ones they have will tend to be worse.

This has been my experience over the years. Though IIRC most of the crash fatalities I've been involved with have been with intermediates.

Unscientifically, I haven't noticed any significant difference in the injury rates between boarders and skiers.

 

[Eleeski]

Boarding hurts me a lot more than skiing! But I'm an intermediate boarder.

More boarders who visit us get hurt. Unscientific but they are mostly intermediates too.

How does surreptitiously unclipping the bindings of the darn boarders fit the statistics?

Eric

 

[François Pugh]

I wonder if the more experienced skiers are more likely to under-report their injuries. I know I am.

Looking back I can recall unreported, "tweaked" knee, concussions (a couple), broken wrist (twice), broken ribs (more than once), bruised lung, broken humorous, broken thumb, 3rd degree shoulder separation, dislocated shoulder, and that's just what comes to mind - my memory isn't as good as I remember it once was.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Wow Francois thats a hell of a list. Have seen a lot from two friends dying to a friend ragdolling top Of Mammoth on his way to a double shoulder separation. Myself a few tweaks racing and one bad tree incident (broken wrist, limb thru face, concussion, Bells lpalsy etc. Yep definitely more experienced skiers under report or don't report at all.

 

[Josh Matta]

Groomed blue terrain is the most dangerous, trees are the safest if you can ski them in control.

 

[raytseng]

Death is always going to have paperwork and the threshold is binary; whereas injury statistics are a little fuzzier.
But I do think the injury statistics will skew from the Death statistics in the scenarios where they occur.

I did see on a recent monday powder day at Squaw, a whole lot more people were getting carted from doing stupid things on expert terrain which I chalk up to judgement issues and not necessarily due to skills or the deadly blue groomer.

 

[CalG]

Fatalities while skiing are not a useful indication of overall ski related incidents and injuries. The exception, not the rule.

I agree with my fellow partoller, My personal unscientific evidence does not suggest skiers or boarders at greater risk.

Also, there are a lot more "less experienced" skiers in our aid room, just as there a lot more on the mountain.

 

[Eleeski]

The worst I've ever seen in the way of downed skiers was Shirley on a (that?) powder day. I didn't see injuries but SO many fallen stuck struggling skiers. We left and went to safer slopes - like KT. I wish I'd taken a picture, it was very unusual.

Expert skiers may be capable of skiing when injured while the intermediates would need the sled. This might skew statistics to indicate less injuries reported but more severe injuries for experts.

Expert skiers might be a majority at Squaw.

I skied down with my boot top fracture (but healed in a few weeks so maybe it was only a minor injury?). Race injury - not sure it was a judgement issue but definitely poor equipment (the deadly Nordica Red Racers from way back). I might have still qualified as an intermediate back then.

Eric

 

[firebanex]

I agree with my fellow partoller, My personal unscientific evidence does not suggest skiers or boarders at greater risk.

Also, there are a lot more "less experienced" skiers in our aid room, just as there a lot more on the mountain.

Same unscientific results for my local area. I would say that a good 25% of this years injuries have been first day of the season and usually first run types of beginners who ski infrequently.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Wow Francois thats a hell of a list. Have seen a lot from two friends dying to a friend ragdolling top Of Mammoth on his way to a double shoulder separation. Myself a few tweaks racing and one bad tree incident (broken wrist, limb thru face, concussion, Bells lpalsy etc. Yep definitely more experienced skiers under report or don't report at all.

I'm never going skiing with you!

 

[Andy Mink]

concussions (a couple)

my memory isn't as good as I remember it once was.

Hmmmm...

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Yes, I will second that memory statement, or third it, maybe fourth it................oh what the hell I forgot what we were talking about.,

 

[RuleMiHa]

Wow Francois thats a hell of a list. Have seen a lot from two friends dying to a friend ragdolling top Of Mammoth on his way to a double shoulder separation. Myself a few tweaks racing and one bad tree incident (broken wrist, limb thru face, concussion, Bells lpalsy etc. Yep definitely more experienced skiers under report or don't report at all.

Wait, skiing gave you an autoimmune disease (Bell's Palsy)?

 

[flbufl]

The worst are beginner skiers (do not know how to slow down) with great balance (can go very fast without falling).

I would think experts would have fewer injuries, but the ones they have will tend to be worse.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Wait, skiing gave you an autoimmune disease (Bell's Palsy)?

Yep, neurologist said in rare cases severe trauma can bring on Bells without the virus. Limb thru cheek with accompanying sutures etc.
Although I am better my face is still paralyzed on the right corner of my mouth and the corner of my right eye.