DIN question - new setup

[Philpug]

We were watching a big air comp and one of the competitors did a tweaked top grab and he actully pulled the boot right out of the binding in mid air. I am sure he had the bindings set pretty high but I thought it was very unusal for that to happen.

 

[Eleeski]

We were watching a big air comp and one of the competitors did a tweaked top grab and he actully pulled the boot right out of the binding in mid air. I am sure he had the bindings set pretty high but I thought it was very unusal for that to happen.

That's a trick from a ski video game! Extra points if you get it back on before landing.

I pre released one ski doing a helicopter, landed one footed and started to ski away until the released ski (still attached by the old school safety strap) caught on a bump and tweaked my knee.

Binding technology has improved over time. The ability of a binding to recenter the boot means pre releases are less common. Extra high DIN settings are less critical to keep a binding on in normal skiing.

Improvements in boot design also aid leg safety (I fractured my fibula decades ago due to poor boot design (Nordica Red Racers)).

It doesn't take much force in the wrong place to damage your body. So no binding will ever be perfect - even set ridiculously low. Do your best to protect yourself when you fall. In the right position, you can put a lot of release force to the binding - probably within any of the DIN settings a shop will set you up with. A pre release is definitely something to avoid.

I'm an average size guy who spends time in the bumps. DIN 6.5 or thereabouts. Last two pre releases were from pulling the bindings out of the ski!

You definitely can take responsibility for your DIN settings. A screwdriver in your hand for minor adjustments is nothing to fear. Especially if the shop tech has confirmed that every thing else is proper.

Eric

 

[RobSN]

I have noted both in charts and in this thread that due to the step function nature of the binding setting charts a small change in weight (mass really) can change the recommended release setting - which got me thinking: I know my weight on the bathroom scales, but with boots, helmet, goggles, ski suit, base layers, poles etc., my weight is going to be at least 10lbs/5kg greater, and maybe a bit more (I'm going to pile everything into a box tomorrow and weigh it to find out). So … does anyone know what the weight is supposed to be - birthday suit, or totally suited up??? Put another way, do the tables assume that additional weight from the gear already, or not?

 

[DanoT]

The weight used for DIN chart is your weight not your equipment's weight. So it is what you weigh naked, and height is measured with shoes off. And whichever number is on a line higher up the page on the chart, that is the line that is used. So it could be weight OR height that the DIN chart uses.

 

[RobSN]

Many thanks @DanoT! It presumably assumes some additional mass from the equipment as me twisting in my ski gear as I fly A upon T creates a larger torque on the skis and bindings than me naked (ok, naked with boots), although I admit that I have never done the latter and would be concerned about frostbite anyway

 

[François Pugh]

The weight used for DIN chart is your weight not your equipment's weight. So it is what you weigh naked, and height is measured with shoes off. And whichever number is on a line higher up the page on the chart, that is the line that is used. So it could be weight OR height that the DIN chart uses.

The step function comes from fitting the breaking strength of bones to the weight of the cadavers the bones came from. The cadavers were weighed naked. If you want to go down a line to get a higher release setting without gaining weight (or going on the rack) change your skier type.

 

[Rod9301]

Here to add to the confusion.
The ski binding and all the associated stuff is not designed to protect neither the knee nor the ankle. It was designed to protect the tibia.

If you injured your ankle during a fall. There is a good chance your boots didn't fitted you well.

Very true

 

[J_P]

don't fear the tool station. no harm finding your own sweet spot if it's below 'the chart.' you only get one set of knees/hips/ankles/lower leg bones. even when i was a younger man that actually took on the mountain a bit, i always rode DINs at a fraction of my tough guy buddies. as eleeski alluded to, you won't pre release if your technique is proper.

 

[NE1]

you won't pre release if your technique is proper.

Icy, rutted racecourse excepted?

 

[oldschoolskier]

I going to post something that I believe Rick Howell made a point of years ago. The DIN setting is about ensure you retain the ski and not so much about release. Don’t make the mistake that this doesn’t mean it not about safety, it is (including release when its required).

The issue with binding designs is how bindings handle impacts and forces during skiing. IE. They handle this amount of force at this DIN setting.

So in the example that @Philpug gives the binding may have had to handle a forces that just took it to the limit of holding just far enough that it can’t reset. Do the grab and surprise you’re holding a ski.

Think of these incidents as “the straw that broke the camels back”.

 

[François Pugh]

Here to add to the confusion.
The ski binding and all the associated stuff is not designed to protect neither the knee nor the ankle. It was designed to protect the tibia.

If you injured your ankle during a fall. There is a good chance your boots didn't fitted you well.

A good chance, but not a sure thing; I imagine Marcel's boots fit him.

World Cup skiing champion Marcel Hirscher breaks ankle, out for 6 weeks

The 28-year-old Austrian will be in a cast for six weeks, and there was no immediate prognosis when he will be able to ski.

www.thestar.com

 

[Winks]

We were watching a big air comp and one of the competitors did a tweaked top grab and he actully pulled the boot right out of the binding in mid air. I am sure he had the bindings set pretty high but I thought it was very unusal for that to happen.

Happens quite a bit actually, guess you need to watch more X-games and Dew-tour!

 

[KingGrump]

A good chance, but not a sure thing; I imagine Marcel's boots fit him.

World Cup skiing champion Marcel Hirscher breaks ankle, out for 6 weeks

The 28-year-old Austrian will be in a cast for six weeks, and there was no immediate prognosis when he will be able to ski.

www.thestar.com

There are more than one way to break an ankle in a ski boot.
Getting run over by a 20 ton steam roller would do it too.
Hell, I don't think there is enough time in my life to list all the possibilities.
The only thing I can be sure is "s**t happens."

 

[Andy Mink]

So, here’s a question raised by some of the info given in this thread:

What happens when people who are Type III skiers fall on easy-peasy runs - you know, the infamous "last run" of the day? Their DIN is higher, to account for their skiing on the hard stuff, so if they’re taking it easy and just catch an edge or something, is there enough force (or torque, whichever is the right one here) to pop the binding?

I have no proof but my guess is more skiers of all abilities suffer knee damage from those easy green runs or even getting knocked over in the lift line than high speed crashes. Time is also a factor in release. Just like a band aid a quick release is easier than a slow twist. Same force over less time.
I had a fall on a barely green run last season. As I was slowly falling and twisting I could feel the pressure building then felt the pop of the MCL just a split second before the binding released. Very weird. If I fell faster I probably would have just injured my ego.

 

[Philpug]

So, here’s a question raised by some of the info given in this thread:

What happens when people who are Type III skiers fall on easy-peasy runs - you know, the infamous "last run" of the day? Their DIN is higher, to account for their skiing on the hard stuff, so if they’re taking it easy and just catch an edge or something, is there enough force (or torque, whichever is the right one here) to pop the binding?

Or just standing in the lift line and falling or being knocked over and end up in a slow twising fall, the binding only knows the force put into it.