Another Deb video about improving skiing fundamentals
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Deb Armstrong/Inside leg activity for parallel turns
- Thread starter Plai
- Start date
Hmmmm.
Got to think about this one for a while.
Got to think about this one for a while.
Are knees intended to bend sideways? I don't think so. Look up "lateral knee flexion." You will find movement in other planes, but not here. Or if you do, it is about the cause and cure of a pain problem. I think the little bit of lateral knee movement possible needs to be relaxed and there in case a sudden side thrust needs to be safely absorbed.
Supination is not a movement. It is how the ankle aligns over the outside of some feet instead of centered, just the opposite of pronation. Supinators are frequently pigeon toed. Inversion of the foot, roll the foot to raise the big toe edge of the inside foot, is what he means. (Eversion is the opposite of inversion. Some people evert the outside foot during the turn.)
Weight over the outside leg? Well, the force vector of weight plus centrifugal force puts weight on the skis. If "over" means like hanging a plumb bob over the ski, that's not it. If "over" means that this combination of forces is mainly working on the outside leg, well, that causes the outside ski to curve more which turns us better. (The coach mentions this at 8:08.) The outside leg with that knee near-straight and that ankle straight handles the strong force better. In some photos like the one below the shot shows more bend in the outside ski and perhaps a bigger spray of snow from the outside ski, therefore more weight on that ski.
I don't find instruction effective when one is told what to do. Telling them how to do it is more effective, and likely that is told off the recording.
Training wheels is like the skier who braces against their skis. Training wheels off is like the skier who balances over their skis.
dj, like this? The inside foot is near the outside knee. This gets the inside ski out of the way and allows the leg angles on the snow for a strong tight carved turn. The pic is from this video. The inside foot comes up, comes in, comes back, and is inverted (tipped) toward its little toe edge. The tipping makes the body want to fall to that side which is then dynamically balanced by the counter (hips & body turned toward the outside of the turn) and angulation (bend in the hips) of the body.
Supination is not a movement. It is how the ankle aligns over the outside of some feet instead of centered, just the opposite of pronation. Supinators are frequently pigeon toed. Inversion of the foot, roll the foot to raise the big toe edge of the inside foot, is what he means. (Eversion is the opposite of inversion. Some people evert the outside foot during the turn.)
Weight over the outside leg? Well, the force vector of weight plus centrifugal force puts weight on the skis. If "over" means like hanging a plumb bob over the ski, that's not it. If "over" means that this combination of forces is mainly working on the outside leg, well, that causes the outside ski to curve more which turns us better. (The coach mentions this at 8:08.) The outside leg with that knee near-straight and that ankle straight handles the strong force better. In some photos like the one below the shot shows more bend in the outside ski and perhaps a bigger spray of snow from the outside ski, therefore more weight on that ski.
I don't find instruction effective when one is told what to do. Telling them how to do it is more effective, and likely that is told off the recording.
Training wheels is like the skier who braces against their skis. Training wheels off is like the skier who balances over their skis.
dj, like this? The inside foot is near the outside knee. This gets the inside ski out of the way and allows the leg angles on the snow for a strong tight carved turn. The pic is from this video. The inside foot comes up, comes in, comes back, and is inverted (tipped) toward its little toe edge. The tipping makes the body want to fall to that side which is then dynamically balanced by the counter (hips & body turned toward the outside of the turn) and angulation (bend in the hips) of the body.
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The inside knee is always higher than the outside knee for most skiers
I get that. But it is over the knee. Does not look like Mikaela is pushing her inside leg out
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Hey.... If you like your knees.... you can keep your knees....
It's been noted in other threads that with the extreme range of motion WC skiers are employing, they plain run out of room to tip the inside lower leg over any farther. You'll still see large, rapid inside foot tipping, with the inside shin leading the way and the shin of the outside leg following...far more so than in typical recreational skiing...but the movement reaches a limit at some point. At the maximum point in a turn, the edge angles may not in fact be equal. Hey, you do what you gotta do.
Good stuff. PMTS emphasizes inside foot action. The international coaches I had in New Zealand emphasized inside foot action. There's considerable agreement on its importance among those training higher level skiing. As Deb says, "From a muscular standpoint, we're deficient in that area." So conscious effort to train the inside foot and leg is crucial. Get the inside foot to work, and the outside foot will follow.
I liked how Deb made the connection between inside foot discipline and "removing the training wheels." All please note Henry's comment that it's necessary to get the inside foot out of the way in order to facilitate inclination, leading to higher edge angles. Absent that, it's impossible to create the amount of inclination necessary to allow balancing over the outside foot in a turn at speed. Being thrown out of balance, the skier will be forced to make compensating movements. Leaning into the inside ski, pushing the outside ski away to increase the turn radius, braking movements to slow down, or all of the above.
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It may be that what you wanted readers to realize is that the tipping of the feet, leading to the tipping of the shins, doesn't involve sideways bending of the knees. The shin angles are a product of rotation in the subtalar joints, a bit of rotation in the lower leg between the ankles and the knees, and movement of the femurs in the hip sockets.
I'd never intentionally set out to bend my knees sideways. If there's a tiny range of movement there, and it happens naturally, OK. If I feel discomfort, I want to do something about it right quick, and I'd encourage others to pay attention to what their bodies are saying, and do likewise.
It goes hand in hand with foot tipping.
If I look at Mikaela’s edge angles, they are equal.
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I think that's an optical illusion. Her shins are not parallel.
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If she wasnt actively paying attention to her inside leg here, then you'd see the inside knee a lot higher than it is. The fact that her boots and shins are nearly parallel shows how much she is driving in that knee. This applies throughout the turn. The natural position of the legs when not paying any attention to the inside will be an egregious A-frame.
Tom Gellie has a lot to say about this. Yes the inside leg needs a lot of attention, but he is not an advocate of pushing that knee out. In fact he says that some inward rotational torque on the inside leg helps to keep it aligned and allows tipping to happen from other forces.
Could a component of this picture be that she is preparing to initiate the next turn?
Look at the inside knee angle compared to the outside.
I think the optical illusion of shin position relates more to her uphill leg - it looks like it has an extra joint in it between the knee and the boot cuff !?
The boots seem pretty close to parallel, though aimed slightly differently as she prepares to transition.
I do get the point about running out of room at that level of skiing.
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Thank you for posting. I too tried to compare what is advocated (as confusing as it might be) in Armstrong's vid vs Gillie's "Activation of the inside foot" video
IMO, it all has to do with the fundamental understanding that inside leg shortening not lateral movement is the priority and foot/leg alignment follows closely.
If you are a PMTS fan, then the opposite is true as demoed by Mr. HH himself. I don't know how anyone who wants to learn the carving process would follow this. In the old days, this was a popular "cheat" called "hooking".
I don't think you understand what hh is doing. By tipping the old outside ski to it's lte and lightening it, he starts the turn by transferring the weight to the new outside ski and simultaneously putting it on edge.