Cheap vs expensive diamond stones

[MattFromCanada]

So looking at stones there seems to be a billion different options out there, ranging from $$$ (at least up here in Canada) Moonflex stones, to DMT stones, to Wintersteiger stones, to super cheap "DMD" stones on Amazon.


Is there really that much of a difference between them all? I can assume that the cheapo ones are going to be abjectly terrible, but among the rest of them?

 

[Daves not here]

I have both the DMT and the Moonflex. The Moonflex are clearly a better stone and will last much longer. With that said - I used the DMT for a couple of seasons before upgrading and they did the job just fine. Others on here can elaborate more deeply on the topic!

 

[OldJeep]

I've had the swix and moonflex - for me the moonflex wear out really quickly, while the swix seem to last a lot longer.

 

[Sibhusky]

I've had DMT and Moonflex. The Moonflex lasted way longer. Haven't had Swix. The DMT seem to really load with wax more quickly and, because they don't have the little border that Moonflex does, they seem to be more subject to sidewall interference.

 

[cantunamunch]

The only reason to use DMT IMO is if you expect to use one of the FK /SKS plastic pocket tools. That's a perfectly fine quickie solution for getting rid of impact burrs and the like, but for limited goals like that you only need one grade of stone (blue).

 

[focker]

I had some cheap ones in the past and I thought they sucked, badly. Didn't really do anything that I noticed. Now I bought some Swix ones and they work so so much better. Loving them. I only have a 200 grit right now, but plan on buying a 400 grit as well.

 

[Jacques]

DMT work and don't really flex. Not a real long life though. Moonflex as the name says, have a plastic backing. They are great and I use them. Thing is one needs to have the pressure directly above the edge to not flex the stone for most accuracy. All the plastic backed stones are like that. BEAST makes some fine stones with aluminum backing plates. Not really cheap, but no flex. They have good life. Many others use a solid backing plate as well.
Trick with any stones is to use plenty of fluid. You can't use too much. If looking clogged, scrub with wire brush in fluid.

 

[Polo]

When used for their intended purpose, they all work about the same. One of the biggest problems most people have is they try and use diamond stones in place of files and that is not their intended purpose.

 

[Primoz]

I've had the swix and moonflex - for me the moonflex wear out really quickly, while the swix seem to last a lot longer.

Swix (and Toko and Snoli) are all DMT
I never used Moonflex, so I can't comment on this, but DMT (well actually Swix that I'm using), are working a whole lot better then cheap stuff you can buy in hardware stores (at least those that I can get around here). It just last much longer. With normal maintenance I normally change them ever 2 or 3 years, while those cheap ones are good for week or two.
@Polo that's exactly what I'm trying to tell for years already Using diamonds the way you use files is perfect way to destroy them in few days while not doing anything good to your ski edges. So instead of having sharper edge, you just end up with exactly same edge as you had and with destroyed diamond stone.

 

[Wilhelmson]

How are people trying to use diamond stones as a file? 20 passes with a 400 grit in an attempt to set an edge?

Just wondering in case I do it myself.

 

[Jacques]

DMT's are re-branded under different names, but their not all the same. For example. On right "economy" Plastic backed. On left "Racing" (a non-flexing stone) Around here if you look for DMT's the one on the right is what you will find unless you go online to purchase.

 

[Dakine]

DMT work and don't really flex. Not a real long life though. Moonflex as the name says, have a plastic backing. They are great and I use them. Thing is one needs to have the pressure directly above the edge to not flex the stone for most accuracy. All the plastic backed stones are like that. BEAST makes some fine stones with aluminum backing plates. Not really cheap, but no flex. They have good life. Many others use a solid backing plate as well.
Trick with any stones is to use plenty of fluid. You can't use too much. If looking clogged, scrub with wire brush in fluid.

I don't always agree with Jaques but when I do........
Honing without a lubricant to flush away the swarf and cool the asparities that contact the edge and do the cutting will ruin a stone very quickly.
This was beaten into me by an old German toolmaker who was a true artist in metal.
You shouldn't use much pressure on a hone either.
Honing fluid for skis cannot contain oil so I use a mix of 90% water, 10% denatured alcohol with a few drops of detergent.
Freshly honed surfaces will corrode quickly at the edge so wax 'em up after honing.

 

[Polo]

How are people trying to use diamond stones as a file? 20 passes with a 400 grit in an attempt to set an edge?

Just wondering in case I do it myself.

Diamond stones are ok for doing touch up work but if you have a damaged edge from running across a rock and it leaves a section where it's nasty, don't try and clean it up with a diamond stone, regardless of the grit. I always use a file to cut that nasty stuff off and depending on how bad it is, I'll often use a panzer file to cut that nasty rash off so I don't dull or damage my good files.

 

[OldJeep]

DMT's are re-branded under different names, but their not all the same. For example. On right "economy" Plastic backed. On left "Racing" (a non-flexing stone) Around here if you look for DMT's the one on the right is what you will find unless you go online to purchase.

The swix on the left is what I've got.

 

[Dakine]

"Diamond stones are ok for doing touch up work but if you have a damaged edge from running across a rock and it leaves a section where it's nasty, don't try and clean it up with a diamond stone, regardless of the grit. I always use a file to cut that nasty stuff off and depending on how bad it is, I'll often use a panzer file to cut that nasty rash off so I don't dull or damage my good files."

I don't think so.
You should always remove burrs with a coarse diamond stone before filing.
The deformed metal in the burrs is harder than the steel in the file and dulls the teeth.
A few passes with a coarse diamond before filing...always!

 

[Polo]

"Diamond stones are ok for doing touch up work but if you have a damaged edge from running across a rock and it leaves a section where it's nasty, don't try and clean it up with a diamond stone, regardless of the grit. I always use a file to cut that nasty stuff off and depending on how bad it is, I'll often use a panzer file to cut that nasty rash off so I don't dull or damage my good files."

I don't think so.
You should always remove burrs with a coarse diamond stone before filing.
The deformed metal in the burrs is harder than the steel in the file and dulls the teeth.
A few passes with a coarse diamond before filing...always!

That's why I use a panzer file, guess you missed that part.

 

[Dakine]

No, I didn't miss it, the teeth on a panzer file aren't harder than any other file and good ones are expensive.
Do your thing......I'm cheap and do what I was taught by guys that shape metal for a living in a toolroom.

 

[focker]

I struggle with knowing when to pull out my file vs just using the 200 grit swix stone I have.

How do I know when I need the file vs when I can just use the stone?

 

[Dakine]

Honing is considered to be a process that refines a previously machined surface.
It really isn't intended to remove much metal but rather to smooth off the peaks left by a previous operation.
So, when an edge wears to the point that metal must be removed to provide a sharp edge you need to file.
I typically get about 20-30 days of skiing before honing won't get my edges as sharp as I like them.
Of course, sharp is a relative term and skis don't ever need to be razor sharp.
Even a razor blade looks ugly under magnification..
http://sharpologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/z-point-370x-15kv.jpg

 

[Swiss Toni]

The yellow Swix diamond stone on the left is faced with adhesive backed resin bonded diamond sheet from the Swiss company KGS Diamond https://www.kgsdiamond.com/ the pattern used on the one in the photo is Swiflex, another popular pattern is Telum. Most if not all of the aluminum backed diamond stones sold by the major wax companies are made by Skiman in Italy http://www.skiman.it/edge-tuning/diamond.aspx

The smaller ski tool manufacturers also use KGS diamond sheet, usually the diamond sheets on these stones extend to the edge of the aluminum backing and you can get replacement sheets https://www.sidecut.com/category/ST.html.

The Moonflex stones also use resin bonded sheet http://www.sorma.net/interna.php?op=131

DMT stones are made from diamond coated sheet metal, all the diamond grains are on the surface so they wear out quicker than the resin bonded stones, which have diamond grains distributed throughout the resin.