• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Carving

Paul Lutes

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Posts
2,733
Thank you good Sir!
This like a breath of crisp, cold air! It seems like forever since we've been able to focus on just pure skiing. The last 3+ months of covid insanity seem like an eternity.
So, let's get serious: I'm going to carve the heck out of all the ski runs this coming season!
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,727
Location
New England
Fun topic.

Pros:
1. Carving is fast and thrilling. Wind whistles past the ears. Moving fast without resistance from the snow feels like flying. The sound, the speed, the control, are all exciting. Adrenaline rush!
2. Carving is the best way to control one's line on refrozen, smooth, hard snow. Being able to carve morphs a melted and refrozen groomer which no one else wants ski into a private run ready for repeats.
3. Carving replaces the harsh scraping sound of skidded turns on hard snow with a quiet swish. Quiet turns are sublime.
4. Carving provides a sense of sure and certain control over line. Tail follows tip and there is no wishy-washy-skidding. The skis grip and the skier goes where the skis point. This certainty is a confidence and ego booster.

Cons:
1. The carving skier can be a danger to others on the trail. It takes time to alter one's line to avoid someone ahead who does something unexpected. Hitting that person at those speeds will be ugly for both parties.
2. Skiers should carve a run when the way ahead is empty. This is the safe way to carve. But many don't want to wait for the trail to clear. This makes carving dangerous when not on a designated race course.
3. If something goes wrong in the turn, the carving skier is going to wish there were B-netting alongside the trail. Hitting trees at carving speeds is not advisable. But most recreational trails don't get B-netting.

Learning to carve is challenging:
1. It can take a long time to build the skill to carve. Deliberate practice where it's safe to do so is necessary. Empty groomed trails with the right pitch for learning are often hard to find.
2. If the skier learning to carve is too far forward or back, the ski tail will not follow the tip. Precise positioning of the center of mass is imperative. Good fore-aft balance is not easy for a skier to learn if bad balance habits have been embedded over time. Learning works better with feedback from a teacher who can diagnose fore-aft issues.
3. Most recreational skiers habitually twist the skis across the snow. This habit is hard to eliminate so that only tipping occurs. It takes time and concentration to learn how to purge the pivot. Many recreational skiers don't have the patience for such deliberate practice, and they don't have the proprioception to sense when they are pivoting the skis. Learning works better with feedback from a teacher who can diagnose and address persistent pivot issues.
4. If the ski is torsionally limp and willing to twist like a dishrag when forces are applied, the tip won't hold, it won't cut a groove in the snow, it will skid out, and the tail will be unable to follow the tip. A skidded turn will happen on such skis, no matter how precise the skier's movements.
5. Many recreational skiers ski on wide skis. These take time to tip up on edge. The time lost in the initial tipping introduces a challenge for a cleanly carved turn entry. A learner often can't overcome the problem the slow tipping introduces while also working to overcome poor fore-aft balancing skills and fighting the habitual pivot that just won't go away.
6. Many recreational skiers are in boots too big. The precision control needed for tipping, for controlling fore-aft balance, and for pivot suppression assume snug boots in all dimensions. All too common loose boots will cause a learner difficult-to-diagnose problems.
7. Adjusting line for speed control or other reasons depends on independent use of inside and outside legs to manipulate the edge angle of the skis. This precision skill takes time to learn, even after the learner figures out where to balance on the ski, replaces the pivot with tipping, and fixes gear issues. Uncrowded blue groomers are best for building his versatility, but they are hard to find.
8. All that said, it's worth it because of the pros listed above.
 
Last edited:

geepers

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2018
Posts
4,301
Location
Wanaka, New Zealand
The Section 8 guys who produced the video have a great approach with their educational material. Laid back style and great content. Thoroughly recommend their Piste to Peak series - this is from Volume 3.

Fun topic.

Pros:
1. Carving is fast and thrilling. Wind whistles through the ears. Moving fast without resistance from the snow feels like flying. The sound, the speed, the control, are all exciting. Adrenaline rush!
2. Carving is the best way to control one's line on refrozen, smooth, hard snow. Being able to carve turns a melted and refrozen groomer which no one else wants ski into a private run ready for repeats.
3. Carving replaces the harsh scraping sound of skidded turns on hard snow with a quiet swish. Quiet turns are sublime.
4. Carving provides a sense of sure and certain control over line. Tail follows tip and there is no wishy-washy-skidding. The skis grip and the skier goes where the skis point. This certainty is a confidence and ego booster.

Cons:
1. The carving skier can be a danger to others on the trail. It takes time to alter one's line to avoid someone ahead who does something unexpected. Hitting that person at those speeds will be ugly for both parties.
2. Skiers should carve a run when the way ahead is empty. This is the safe way to carve. But many don't want to wait for the trail to clear. This makes carving dangerous when not on a designated race course.
3. If something goes wrong in the turn, the carving skier is going to wish there were B-netting alongside the trail. Hitting trees at carving speeds is not advisable. But most recreational trails don't get B-netting.

Learning to carve is challenging:
1. It can take a long time to build the skill to carve. Deliberate practice where it's safe to do so is necessary. Empty groomed trails with the right pitch for learning are often hard to find.
2. If the skier learning to carve is too far forward or back, the ski tail will not follow the tip. Precise positioning of the center of mass is imperative. Good fore-aft balance is not easy for a skier to learn if bad balance habits have been embedded over time. Learning works better with feedback from a teacher who can diagnose fore-aft issues.
3. Most recreational skiers habitually twist the skis across the snow. This habit is hard to eliminate so that only tipping occurs. It takes time and concentration to learn how to purge the pivot. Many recreational skiers don't have the patience for such deliberate practice, and they don't have the proprioception to sense when they are pivoting the skis. Learning works better with feedback from a teacher who can diagnose and address persistent pivot issues.
4. If the ski is torsionally limp and willing to twist like a dishrag when forces are applied, the tip won't hold, it won't cut a groove in the snow, it will skid out, and the tail will be unable to follow the tip. A skidded turn will happen on such skis, no matter how precise the skier's movements.
5. Adjusting line for speed control or other reasons depends on independent use of inside and outside legs to manipulate the edge angle of the skis. This precision skill takes time to learn.
6. Many recreational skiers ski on wide skis. These take time to tip up on edge. The time lost in the initial tipping introduces a challenge for a cleanly carved turn entry. A learner often can't overcome the problem the slow tipping introduces in while working to overcome poor fore-aft balancing skills and fighting the habitual pivot that won't go away.
7. Many recreational skiers are in boots too big. The precision control needed for tipping, for controlling fore-aft balance, and for pivot suppression assume snug boots in all dimensions. Loose boots will cause a learner difficult-to-diagnose problems.

Good comments.
 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,247
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
LF said..."Cons:
1. The carving skier can be a danger to others on the trail. It takes time to alter one's line to avoid someone ahead who does something unexpected. Hitting that person at those speeds will be ugly for both parties.
2. Skiers should carve a run when the way ahead is empty. This is the safe way to carve. But many don't want to wait for the trail to clear. This makes carving dangerous when not on a designated race course.
3. If something goes wrong in the turn, the carving skier is going to wish there were B-netting alongside the trail. Hitting trees at carving speeds is not advisable. But most recreational trails don't get B-netting. "


1. That skier needs more practice in flush gates (or practice in imaginary flush gates). From a clean carve I can change the line my increasing or decreasing the skis angle on the snow very promptly or even slam a hockey stop. Giving others ample room is always necessary.
2. Well...it depends on the carver. Certainly not in a crowd.
3. The carver must pick the slope of the hill for speed control, also the radius of the turn and how promptly they release and transition to the new turn. It takes only a moment to release the locked carve and transition into a brushed carve that scrubs off speed.

There is something absolutely sublime in making a 180° locked clean carve to a stop. Yes, it needs a totally empty slope. I'm still looking for the slope with a slight knoll where I can make a 360° locked carve and keep going....
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,562
20200602_152415.jpg
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,288
Location
Ontario Canada
I’m not going to argue with LF points as they are good.

However, what is missing is those (few) that do carve at speed (and enjoy doing so), can also ski in other forms to control speeds as and when needed to avoid said hazards and collisions. More importantly have the wisdom to do so.

To be fair there are also those that think they can ski like this and don’t have the required skills or wisdon to ensure everyones safety, which unfortunately LF clearly addresses.

Please don’t combine these two different groups into one. It does disservice to all skiers by making general statements like that.
 
Thread Starter
TS
F

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,687
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
So where the old GS skis just slightly tighter radius.
My old SG skis (Kästle), which are almost DH skis, have about a 70 m side-cut radius. That radius made them perfect for tipping up to 70 degrees and carving 35 m radius 2-g turns at a mile a minute. Typical GS side-cut radius back in the day was about 45 m.
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,288
Location
Ontario Canada
For those that want to carve but not a mach schnell speeds, use modern SL race skis, it is a blast just don’t lean them over as much and keep the speeds below 40mph, ideal for this is closer to 30-35, clean, safety, exciting controllable fun. Plus if you do crash it doesn’t hurt as much ogwink
 
Thread Starter
TS
F

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,687
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
For those that want to carve but not a mach schnell speeds, use modern SL race skis, it is a blast just don’t lean them over as much and keep the speeds below 40mph, ideal for this is closer to 30-35, clean, safety, exciting controllable fun. Plus if you do crash it doesn’t hurt as much ogwink
Yes! Crashing hurts, a lot, and for a longer time as you get older.:crutches:
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,727
Location
New England
Platform angle is essential for grip.
They put platform angle center stage in the body of the video, great! but forgot to mention it again at the very end when they sum up. Darnit.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top