Carbon road bikes are getting really affordable..

[Philpug]

Why are there $10K bikes? Because people will buy them. What are there $399 bikes? Because people will buy them. If there weren't customers for these products, they wouldn't be produced. You can say the same for any product, being cars, audio, watches, scotches, shoes whatever.

IMHO this is the golden age of value with bikes and what you get for value...at every price point.

 

[martyg]

Why are there $10K bikes? Because people will buy them. What are there $399 bikes? Because people will buy them. If there weren't customers for these products, they wouldn't be produced. You can say the same for any product, being cars, audio, watches, scotches, shoes whatever.

IMHO this is the golden age of value with bikes and what you get for value...at every price point.

Good perspective. Keep in mind as well that there are a handful of factories producing all of the carbon frames out there, and virtually all of the carbon comes out of a Giant owned factory. Components come from predominantly one of two brands. So what most bike "companies" end up being are marketing companies.

The argument that one brand is better than another - total BS. The supply chain is too consolidated for it to make a difference. Buy the band that fits you best. In my case it is Specialized because they tend to have a longer top tube.

 

[Plai]

Let me know when it gets to the $300 range. That's what "really affordable" means to me, LOL

I'm closer to this. My pain point seems to be $1K, so I cruise the used market. Last road was a used 2014 Spesh Roubaix SL4 with Ultegra for under my target in 2016.

I also had aluminum before and like carbon much better. The vibrations don't hurt as much with carbon.

I also like the newer endurance frames better. For recreational riding, why do I need a twitchy bike and sore lower back?

Don't think I need disc brakes on road, so that would not get me to pull the trigger again Spesh's "future shock" might get it though, but will probably have to wait another year for the retail show offs to get rid of their stuff.

 

[scott43]

I don't know motorcycles on the elite level... But is that the same bike that people winning world championships are riding? Does that sport have NGB imposed limitations that dictate build being close to stock?

There are some obvious limitations..you can't ride a true race bike on the street very well..but a Superbike class race bike isn't far off a street bike you can buy for $10k in some ways..

 

[martyg]

Note to self.....

If you are pining for that new bike..... get it this year. With the trade tariff war it is anyone's guess how bike prices will be affected. I'm trying to write an article on this, but there is not enough meaningful information. I used to bring in about 2,000 40' & 45' containers to the US per year for my business, so I have a bit of visibility on tariffs, how it will affect everyone's margin, and MSRP.

That S-Works HT and Tarmac that I want but don't deserve? I'll probably pull the trigger.

 

[cantunamunch]

Don't think I need disc brakes on road, so that would not get me to pull the trigger again Spesh's "future shock" might get it though, but will probably have to wait another year for the retail show offs to get rid of their stuff.

You wouldn't consider trying a Redshift stem with your current ride?

I mean if you've already amortised the frame and drivetrain, and if non-disc resale value plummets, then spending $1K on a newish non-disc frame, in the same geo, for the sole advantage of a factory shock absorption stem seems ... a dubious exercise of the wallet closing muscle?

 

[Plai]

You wouldn't consider trying a Redshift stem with your current ride?

I mean if you've already amortised the frame and drivetrain, and if non-disc resale value plummets, then spending $1K on a newish non-disc frame, in the same geo, for the sole advantage of a factory shock absorption stem seems ... a dubious exercise of the wallet closing muscle?

I don't see how the shocked stem is better than a shocked fork/head tube. I do agree about the return on investment being greater. First world problems. Will probably not jump either way right now.

 

[skibob]

Interesting story.... I found the exact sponsor bike that I used to race on in the 80's when I went home for a friend's funeral. The bike was rotting in his adult son's garage. The frame was rusted, painted with purple spray can, with overspray on the Campy Super Record components.

He bequeathed the bike back to me and I spend literally thousands restoring it. The frame was professionally painted. The brand was a house brand built in the Viner factory. I cruised the internet, found a 1980's catalogue of that brand that someone posted on-line and recreated the decals in AI. For components that couldn't be salvaged I bought NIB Campy Super Record parts off of vintage sites.... I thought, "Man, it will be amazing to finally ride this. The memories. the races. The friendships."

I took one ride on it and said, "I really like my 15 pound carbon bikes much more." I haven't ridden it since then.

Interesting. Any perspective on how it compared to top quality steel bikes today in design?

To me there are two factors. One is what we would call "damping" if it were a ski. Carbon is clearly king with this, no doubt whatsoever. The other is the ability to "spool up" energy. I've never thought that language was adequate so I hope you know what I mean. I find steel, a good steel bike, to still be superior at this. There is a way that it responds to input that is particularly satisfying. Fluid, smooth, and *feels* like its giving more back (it probably isn't) rather than adsorbing it. Carbon sucks at this, imho. Deader than a doornail in this regard.

 

[cantunamunch]

IThe other is the ability to "spool up" energy. I've never thought that language was adequate so I hope you know what I mean. I find steel, a good steel bike, to still be superior at this. There is a way that it responds to input that is particularly satisfying. Fluid, smooth, and *feels* like its giving more back (it probably isn't) rather than adsorbing it. Carbon sucks at this, imho. Deader than a doornail in this regard.

"bike planing" - we've had threads on it. It's the 'secret sauce' of Ritchey Logic and others.

And I don't think carbon is categorically incapable of this, but one has to look towards the flexier layup regimes and those tend to suffer in the market. Historically, Alan, Look, some Times come to mind here.

 

[Ron]

all carbon is not alike.... there are some very different layups and modulus'

 

[JohnnyG]

carbon is great for old battered body parts!

giant is the largest producer of carbon frames IIRC but note that all carbon is not equal.

I just got my wife a Liv bike for her birthday, biggest selling point is their lifetime warranty on all frames, alu, carbon, all of it!

 

[martyg]

I just got my wife a Liv bike for her birthday, biggest selling point is their lifetime warranty on all frames, alu, carbon, all of it!

That would be the life of the company? Boutique brands come and go. All sorts of issues - mainly on the design, IP, and sourcing end.

 

[Ron]

That would be the life of the company? Boutique brands come and go. All sorts of issues - mainly on the design, IP, and sourcing end.

Liv is owned by giant.

 

[Ken_R]

In other news, Trek has a New Madone

 

[Ron]

Bad ass bike. Not a good choice for here or I would have gotten that one.

 

[cantunamunch]

Does anyone know of a planing bike (brand, model) that doesn't use size-dependent construction (e.g. size-dependent butting, size dependent layup)?

 

[scott43]

"bike planing" - we've had threads on it. It's the 'secret sauce' of Ritchey Logic and others.

And I don't think carbon is categorically incapable of this, but one has to look towards the flexier layup regimes and those tend to suffer in the market. Historically, Alan, Look, some Times come to mind here.

And this argument has gone on forever. Jobst Brandt used to argue a great deal about it. I personally like flex. I don't have wattage evidence or time measurements..I just like a little whip. You get a bit of flex the strong part and you get it back on the weak part of the stroke. Steel is ideal for this as it has basically infinite fatigue life and acts like a spring forever. Alu is whippy (Alan/Vitus) but sometimes has a finite lifespan. If you take out the flexy steering issues, whip is good for me. I think carbon has the potential to make the perfect frame (for me)..stiff for handling, whippy for riding. Unfortunately I can't justify custom stuff..so I'll ride my hand-me-down Reynolds 853 whippy bike with the evil downhill handling!

 

[cantunamunch]

It's a bonanza out there on rim brake steel. For the price of a carbon rim brake bike I should be able to score two Serottas and the lumber for a second shed

 

[JohnnyG]

That would be the life of the company? Boutique brands come and go. All sorts of issues - mainly on the design, IP, and sourcing end.

Liv is the female Giant, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

 

[markojp]

My steel bikes where prettier, especially the Tommasini. Loved the ride of my old Basso, but my current carbon bike is a waaaay better ride than anything I've ever owned. Lighter, stiffer without being harsh, etc... Steel might be real, but other than a commute bike, I doubt I'll own another steel frame.