Calling All Wax Experts!

[Lilledonmarco]

So, I am a little confused here.

I have some Moly MB77 from Swix, and I have been researchng a bit on it - which is always dangerous

So far, people (and manufacturers), have said the following about it:

- It should only be used immediately after a fresh base grind, or on new skis, or,
- It should only be used on either dirty snow, or very cold snow, or,
- It can be used whenever

What does the collective say on this product?

If I am to use it, what is the "correct" sequence?

 

[Philpug]

@RaceWax.com to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone

 

[Jacques]

So, I am a little confused here.

I have some Moly MB77 from Swix, and I have been researchng a bit on it - which is always dangerous

So far, people (and manufacturers), have said the following about it:

- It should only be used immediately after a fresh base grind, or on new skis, or,
- It should only be used on either dirty snow, or very cold snow, or,
- It can be used whenever

What does the collective say on this product?

If I am to use it, what is the "correct" sequence?

Moly is used as an antistatic. It is a solid lubricant. I can help keep the bases cleaner when the snow is full of "stuff"
Just use it when the snow temps. match what the package says.
I don't use Swix, but it appears to be a base prep. wax. In that case, you need to use another wax over that, after you cool, scrape, and brush it out.

 

[snwbrdr]

MB77 as mentioned is a base prep wax, but in addition to molybdenum, it is also a low-fluoro wax also.

The MB77 is their "cold" base prep wax.

 

[Zrxman01]

While I typically use Swix BP base waxes and all their other CH, LH and HF versions for racing.
(Along with Dominator Zoom base and glide waxes too Jacques)
Here is what I am seeing:

Fluorinated wax used for conditioning bases; Formulated for mid-range temperatures plus the addition of molybdenum for further resistance to snow abrasionThe fluorinated properties allows it to be used alone as a training wax or as a base layer for Swix Cera F Powders and SolidsReconditions base, keeping it saturated and resistant to drying out or oxidizingSpecs:Swix Special Temperature Range: Black: Solid: Bulk WaxAir Temp Range: 18F /34F (-8C / 1C): Iron Temp: 275F (135C):

Bottom line. Use it in the temp range and enjoy!!!

 

[Mike Thomas]

Moly is used as an antistatic.

that's not how I use it...

 

[Jacques]

While I typically use Swix BP base waxes and all their other CH, LH and HF versions for racing.
(Along with Dominator Zoom base and glide waxes too Jacques)
Here is what I am seeing:

Fluorinated wax used for conditioning bases; Formulated for mid-range temperatures plus the addition of molybdenum for further resistance to snow abrasionThe fluorinated properties allows it to be used alone as a training wax or as a base layer for Swix Cera F Powders and SolidsReconditions base, keeping it saturated and resistant to drying out or oxidizingSpecs:Swix Special Temperature Range: Black: Solid: Bulk WaxAir Temp Range: 18F /34F (-8C / 1C): Iron Temp: 275F (135C):

Bottom line. Use it in the temp range and enjoy!!!

Nice from a Swix user.
If you still plan on sanctioned racing, you better be prepared to lose the fluoro.
Cera powders have one of the highest PFOA contents. Need a gas mask for sure to apply those powders!
This will be the new wave (video). Then Toko, Swix, etc. are working on it too.

 

[Jacques]

that's not how I use it...

Okay, so how do you use it? It is what it is. It's Molybdenum
Personally, I believe Dominator makes and understands antistatic's the best. Graphite's, fine-tuned is what they use. They also use Tungsten, but that's in the Japan line for Japan's monsoonal snows. That might even be good for a salty racecourse.

 

[snwbrdr]

Nice from a Swix user.
If you still plan on sanctioned racing, you better be prepared to lose the fluoro.
Cera powders have one of the highest PFOA contents. Need a gas mask for sure to apply those powders!
This will be the new wave (video). Then Toko, Swix, etc. are working on it too.

There is another thread about the enforcement of fluoro, or the lack of available and reliable technology to detect the fluoro in bases, so we got another season of racing with fluoro for the mean time.

FIS Postpones Fluorinated Wax Ban for a Year

FIS Postpones Fluorinated Wax Ban for a Year - What This Means for You The FIS just announced the last minute postponement of the fluorinated wax ban that they had announced and continued to confirm over the past year. The new plan is to implement this for the 2021/22 season. Why the ban was...

www.skitalk.com

 

[cantunamunch]

Okay, so how do you use it? It is what it is. It's Molybdenum

I think you mean it's molybdenum disulfide.

Molybdenum disulfide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not so good as an antistatic - but BETTER as a dry lube and an antiwear layer than graphite


To OP: MB77 works well to saturate bases - which is why it's used as a base prep.

You can totally ski it by itself - but there are both harder, more durable waxes out there (that don't saturate bases so well) that are better for the final coat on a cold day. Pretty much any day when you'd use wax harder than CH7 would be a cold day in this context.

You can totally ski it by itself - but there are less durable and more water-repellent waxes out there, along with any number of surfactant formulations that are better for the final coat on a warm day. Pretty much any day when you'd use CH8 or softer would be a warm day in this context.

 

[Tony S]

that's not how I use it...

 

[Lilledonmarco]

Thanks for the replies so far.

As you can see, there is disagreement on this topic

 

[cantunamunch]

As you can see, there is disagreement on this topic

I have a new diet plan. I am not going to order pizza until the collective agrees on toppings.

 

[Lilledonmarco]

Ok, so the smart approach here is to use it as an occassional base prep, then apply the days' wax on top.

Have I understood that correctly?

 

[Mike Thomas]

Okay, so how do you use it? It is what it is. It's Molybdenum

 

[cantunamunch]

Ok, so the smart approach here is to use it as an occassional base prep, then apply the days' wax on top.

Have I understood that correctly?

Sounds good to me. You want to start using it to develop your own feel for what it can or can't do.

 

[James]

Is moly disulfide not hydrophobic like graphite? Thus the floros.

From Dominator-
———————-
Four types of compounds are commonly used as antistatic additives for waxes: Graphite, molybdenum disulfide (moly), tungsten disulfide and fluorographite. All are considered extreme pressure lubricants, often used in high load metal-to-metal lubrication. They are extremely hard and are not penetrated by the hardest snow crystals or even by snow impurities like clay or salt, so they are very useful on aggressive and polluted snow. They all have low internal friction (some lower than others), because of their layered structure. Their interaction with snow varies wildly with different types of snow crystal; this is very complex science requiring a good grasp of the concepts at work, so antistatic wax additive science is poorly understood, even by many wax companies.
——————————
Pg 16
More here-

https://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/wax-science-demystified.pdf

 

[Jacques]

There is another thread about the enforcement of fluoro, or the lack of available and reliable technology to detect the fluoro in bases, so we got another season of racing with fluoro for the mean time.

https://www.SkiTalk.com/threads/fis-postpones-fluorinated-wax-ban-for-a-year.20969/#post-523413

Yes, I have been aware of the fact.

 

[S.H.]

There is another thread about the enforcement of fluoro, or the lack of available and reliable technology to detect the fluoro in bases, so we got another season of racing with fluoro for the mean time.

https://www.SkiTalk.com/threads/fis-postpones-fluorinated-wax-ban-for-a-year.20969/#post-523413

USSA has held their ban on fluoros in non-FIS races, FYI.

Despite FIS delay, US Ski & Snowboard's fluorocarbon ban remains for 2020-21

Earlier this month, FIS announced a postponement of its ban on fluorinated waxes until the start of the 2021-22 season, beginning on July 1, 2021. However the ban continues to be in effect for non-FIS sanctioned events in the United States. In July, Ski Racing Media published “Future without...

skiracing.com

 

[Jacques]

USSA has held their ban on fluoros in non-FIS races, FYI.

Despite FIS delay, US Ski & Snowboard's fluorocarbon ban remains for 2020-21

Earlier this month, FIS announced a postponement of its ban on fluorinated waxes until the start of the 2021-22 season, beginning on July 1, 2021. However the ban continues to be in effect for non-FIS sanctioned events in the United States. In July, Ski Racing Media published “Future without...

skiracing.com

Thanks, that's good to know!

Prior info : https://skiracing.com/future-without-fluoros-a-complete-guide/

One more edit : https://www.skitalk.com/threads/all-new-fluoro-free-waxes-from-dominator.21013/