Binding Setup for Speed vs Tech

[JTurner]

I'm interested in any experience anyone can share on this. Is it common to setup binding delta any differently for SG/DH than for tech? I have some Rossi SG skis that have R21 plates that are marked as 11mm thick both toe and heel, which is different than all the plates on SL and GS Rossi's I've ever seen, which have 7mm heel plates. So I just wasn't sure if this was most likely an athlete specific setup choice, or if it was normal to go with a thicker heel plate for speed, which in this case would result in 4mm more binding ramp.

To try to anticipate possible questions (as if this weren't already pedantic enough) the tech skis I'm familiar with have SPX 15 bindings on them, whereas I have SPX 18's for this pair, not sure if that makes a difference. I measured the bindings and the 18's seem to have similar toe/heel stand height as the 15's unmounted.

TIA

 

[Erik Timmerman]

That definitely makes sense. If you have bindings with a lot of gas pedal you pretty much can't tuck.

 

[erdz]

Ligety's tech; (Alex Martin?) told me that he uses plus 3mm for SG and plus 6mm for DH.

 

[Primoz]

SG, and especially DH plates are thinner not thicker then GS/SL plates (at least for current Rossi skis, but most likely it's same everywhere, and for same reason). Rules are same through all disciplines, and if you want to be inside FIS norm, you simply can't fit SL/GS plate on DH ski that's twice thickness of GS ski. For all DH/SG skis that I have seen lately (from several top 15 guys on WC), all use same thickness hell/toe plates (some with 1mm "inserts" on hell or toe depending on their preference), but as I wrote, all speed plates are (about) half the thickness of tech plates.

 

[ScotsSkier]

The SG ski with the 11mm plate front and rear is designed for the previous MFX18 binding, not the Rockerflex/SPX. The SPX/RF set up uses a 7mm heel plate as the RF/SPX binding heel sits higher than the MFX heel.

 

[JTurner]

Well that makes sense. I never even considered the possibility that these skis would have had the old R20 plate. Anybody know how difficult it is to swap the plate? I have a pair of now rock skis with R21’s I could take off if the holes into the ski would match. If it’s more complicated than that I might need to consider other options.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Only a couple of sets of holes match up between the R 20 andR 21 plates. Not a straight swap. Are you sure it is the R20 plate? The R20 has the connecting "I" piece between the front and rear plates. The R21 plate came in 2 versions. Initially for the MFX binding with 11mm front and rear plates and then for the rockerflex binding with 11 and 7 mm plates. I have had Rossi SGs with both iterations. The toe mount is the same on both plates, the heel mount is different. You can actually mount the older binding on the rockerflex plate, ypu just need to drill the rear heel screws into the plastic of the plate rather than the inserts. ( gives a good gas pedal on a slalom ski! ) In fact the heel plate on the speed ski R21 rockerflex plate maybe thinner than 7mm as the speed skis come with special extra short screws for the heel mount

 

[JTurner]

Thanks Scots, Primoz, and everybody. I compared the plates and what I have must be the older version R21. They match other than the secondary metal inserts more rearward in the heel.

 

[ScotsSkier]

if you are using the non-rockerflex MFX/PX18 race binding (which I think it must be as the Rockerflex/SPX does not fit the earlier R21 plate) then this will give you the same starting delta as the rocker flex/SPX on the later R21 plate.

 

[JTurner]

I was intending to use the rockerflex type. It’s what I have around, and they didn’t come with these skis. Hence my concern over getting the setup right.

 

[ScotsSkier]

If you can make it fit it will give you about +4 delta without any shims. Can’t remember if it is possible to fit it.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Whoops! Mea culpa! Just realized that I have been giving you some incorrect info. I will put it down to recovering from surgery.... . IIRC I have been mixing up the R 20 and R 21 plat3s with the R18 plate. The R18 is the older plate with the connecting I bar which takes the MFX 18 binding . The R20 is the 2 piece plate which takes the MFX18. The R21 is the 2 piece plate which takes the rockerflex /SPX binding and I think has the same mounting points as the R20. I will double check on that as I have examples of bothe here.

Update: The R18 and R20 plates are interchangeable. The R21 plate uses some but not all of the same holes. depending on your BSL there MAY be a slight possibility of modifying the R20 to fit the rockerflex but it is a long shot. I do have a good set of MFX200 bindings here here to fit the R20 plate if you can not make it work.

Also, I should have remembered . Just googled and found this thread

https://www.pugski.com/threads/difference-between-rossi-look-axial-3-and-rockerflex-bindings.4690/

 

[JTurner]

Thanks for being so thorough and conscientious, I really appreciate it.

I’ll play with dry fitting what I have and see how things look. If my BSL will fit the holes I might just try it for the extra 4mm delta compared to the GS and SL setup I’m used to, since that might be of benefit in speed. Although I’d like to avoid being too much of a guinea pig.

It makes sense as Primoz says that it would technically put it over the max stand height, but I don’t think based on the competition guide wording that the rule would technically apply for US masters events.

The hole pattern to mount the R20 and R21 plates to skis looks identical, so if need be I guess I can swap to a R21 plate.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Yes, stand height applies for US and FIS masters, it is one of the few equipment rules that does apply. Although I have never seen it enforced.

 

[JTurner]

I’m posting this update to close the loop on the issue, in case it benefits someone else in the future.

I ended up having to swap plates, but that was easy. Even though the R20 plate and binding holes looked to match up they didn’t exactly align when trying to actually insert screws properly. I had another worn out pair of skis with an R21 plate so I just swapped the plates. I wasn’t sure if I would find the plate screws glued into the skis or something like that which would make them hard to remove, but that wasn’t the case in either pair of skis.

Thanks again to everybody who offered their advice and experience.