Binding Elasticity

[tomahawkins]

Cody Townsend covering features and aspects of alpine, hybrid, and touring bindings:


At t=249s he claims that binding elasticity provides suspension; that it absorbs "all the vibrations that's built up in your skis during a turn" and "makes your turns more powerful and cleaner".

I have no doubt that elasticity does provide suspension in near release circumstances, but how often is the binding displaced during the course of a normal run? My DIN is 6.5 and sits near the bottom of the DIN range for most of my bindings. Even so, the spring preload is pretty firm: it takes a lot of force to displace the binding and I wouldn't think my feet are taking this force on a regular basis. And going to a lighter spring binding, where my 6.5 DIN is near the upper part of range will result in an even higher preload force.

 

[Philpug]

Sth2 16 for '22 has MNC compatibility. I personally prefer the Sth2 (longitudinal spring) over the Warden (lateral spring) for that addition elasticity, one for the absorbsion and secong because of that elasticity I can ski it at a lower setting without fear of pre release.

 

[ski otter 2]

What Cody said.
That's been my experience for a long time, with an all mountain binding that has a lot of (wide range of) play in it (at the toe, especially). It provides elasticity routinely, turn to turn in uneven especially (more vibration there to dampen/absorb/stabilize). (Attack13, Marker Griffon, etc.). There are other factors too, other variables to mess with, including skiing style, the skis, mount point, boots, plates, rubber layer if any, etc.

I very much have heard what Phil said, that the Sth2 in particular is more elastic, but I've never been on that. (I don't experience the Pivot as particularly more elastic on the few skis I've had it on, but I'd have to experiment with more setups to be sure one way or the other.)

I've been told, and feel, that the extra elasticity/absorption/playfulness I'm feeling with all mountain bindings is mostly from the easy range of motion of the binding toes, with the two I mentioned and have experience with in direct comparisons.

I've skied the same model and length ski with all mountain bindings back to back with more rigid race derived bindings, and, guess what, it's an obviously different feel - the more race one more directed, locked in, more a driving feel; the other a more playful, forgiving, in some ways damper, versatile feel.

 

[neonorchid]

Sth2 16 for '22 has MNC compatibility. I personally prefer the Sth2 (longitudinal spring) over the Warden (lateral spring) for that addition elasticity, one for the absorbsion and secong because of that elasticity I can ski it at a lower setting without fear of pre release.

That is good news. The lack of a longitudinal spring is what keeps me from purchasing an Alpine binding with MNC compatibility. Only I require a 5.5 DIN setting and the Sth2 16 lowest setting is 7 DIN.

Any word on Salomon offering the Sth2 13 with MNC compatibility in the '22 line?

 

[Philpug]

That is good news. The lack of a longitudinal spring is what keeps me from purchasing an Alpine binding with MNC compatibility. Only I require a 5.5 DIN setting and the Sth2 16 lowest setting is 7 DIN.

Any word on Salomon offering the Sth2 13 with MNC compatibility in the '22 line?

Not till 2023

 

[cantunamunch]

I have no doubt that elasticity does provide suspension in near release circumstances, but how often is the binding displaced during the course of a normal run? My DIN is 6.5 and sits near the bottom of the DIN range for most of my bindings. Even so, the spring preload is pretty firm: it takes a lot of force to displace the binding and I wouldn't think my feet are taking this force on a regular basis. And going to a lighter spring binding, where my 6.5 DIN is near the upper part of range will result in an even higher preload force.

Remember that Whiteout vs. whatever damping thread? It contains your answer - the greatest component is around 5Hz and the other side is your body mass (with it's own internal springing).

Even with the super-simplified model we used at the end of that thread (only the 50cm under the bindings is contacting the snow), the binding acts as suspension for rocking mode (at the ankle joint) and the flexion mode (accordion squeezing of the heel and toe together/apart).

 

[neonorchid]

Not till 2023

Any insider word on a MNC Look Pivot binding by '23?

 

[Philpug]

Any insider word on a MNC Look Pivot binding by '23?

I doubt it. I don't think MNC is high on their priority list.

 

[neonorchid]

I doubt it. I don't think MNC is high on their priority list.

Dratz!

MNC Look Pivot would be a great option to have with the Cast Freetour binding system. Which Btw is becoming increasingly more appealing to me to use on a ≥100mm width "50/50 ski".

 

[tomahawkins]

Remember that Whiteout vs. whatever damping thread? It contains your answer - the greatest component is around 5Hz and the other side is your body mass (with it's own internal springing).

Even with the super-simplified model we used at the end of that thread (only the 50cm under the bindings is contacting the snow), the binding acts as suspension for rocking mode (at the ankle joint) and the flexion mode (accordion squeezing of the heel and toe together/apart).

For reference: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/ski-stiffness-hero-whiteout-and-1sc-compared.22045/page-5

If that's the case, could there be benefit to using stiffer springs to lower the preload, i.e. lower the force to initiate suspension displacement? Or nonlinear springs for a softer coefficient in the suspension region, but then exponent up to the release point?

 

[anders_nor]

I have no doubt that elasticity does provide suspension in near release circumstances, but how often is the binding displaced during the course of a normal run? My DIN is 6.5 and sits near the bottom of the DIN range for most of my bindings. Even so, the spring preload is pretty firm: it takes a lot of force to displace the binding and I wouldn't think my feet are taking this force on a regular basis. And going to a lighter spring binding, where my 6.5 DIN is near the upper part of range will result in an even higher preload force.

just testing a pintech binding on same ski for same skiiing lets you know how much a proper alpine binding does for you