Big changes for U. S. Men's Slalom

[Tricia]

I'm not sure how I missed this, but there is a significant change coming for the U. S. Men's Slalom, and even bigger outrage about the platform of how athletes are funded.
SkiRacing.com's premium article collection reads: Down but not out; U.S. Men's Slalom Team Looks Toward the Future
<snip from article>
There’s no denying that being left off the national team roster stings, but Engel and his teammates have taken this situation in stride and are already looking towards next season and the opportunities that lie ahead of them.
Both Engel and Ginnis will be joining the NCAA circuit this coming season for the University of Utah and Dartmouth College, respectively, as well as dueling it out on the World Pro Ski Tour.

“There are a lot more opportunities out there,” Ginnis said. “I ski because I love it. I don’t do it because it’s financially lucrative or because I want to race World Cup, so I have options and I’m going to explore them.”


This from Facebook's World Cup Dreams Foundation:

US Ski team criteria got steep this year. To qualify to be fully-funded, you must have a top 15 World Cup Start List rank (WCSL). The criteria was changed to motivate athletes. Discretion will be used as to whether those outside a top 15 WCSL rank are fully-funded. If not, B-team fees are $10,000 plus flights.

At the close of US Ski and Snowboard’s annual congress, the US Ski and Snowboard cut the entire Men’s alpine slalom team. We're told they could not justify a men’s slalom team as part of their budget so as of now, there will be no men’s slalom team competing in the 18-19 World Cup season.

The savings from these changes will NOT go directly to the revamp of development programs, which is the focus of project 26. Athletes in the development pipeline (the future of US Ski and Snowboard) will still have to pay high costs out of pocket.

To help these elite athletes on the ski team fund their seasons, go to our website and click the donate button. www.worldcupdreams.org or mail a check.
For more, and to read comments on FB:
“cutting” the men’s World Cup slalom team



Tiger doesn't have many fans.

 

[James]

So, how many US men's slalom racers have had a 15th or under world cup ranking in the last 5 years?

Or women beside Mikaela?

 

[Started at 53]

So, how many US men's slalom racers have had a 15th or under world cup ranking in the last 5 years?

Or women beside Mikaela?

Come on @James it’s all and ONLY about Olympic medals!!!

Geez, the hits just keep coming!!!

 

[x10003q]

Brilliant!!

 

[James]

At the close of US Ski and Snowboard’s annual congress, the US Ski and Snowboard cut the entire Men’s alpine slalom team. We're told they could not justify a men’s slalom team as part of their budget so as of now, there will be no men’s slalom team competing in the 18-19 World Cup season.

Had they said they're getting rid of the Board members there might be hope. But this is just a double negative that makes nothing.
Not sure how the Board is justified by medals, results, or budget.

 

[Muleski]

It's not "new news". I get tired of posting all of this stuff.

The guys who have been on the "SL team" have known for a while.
Not a single skier made the criteria. Dave Chodounsky and Nolan Kasper both retired. Mark Engel did not make the A team criteria, which is fully funded. AJ GInnis was probably on the WC too early, and he's being dropped. Engel will use up his last year of NCAA eligibility at Utah. Ginnis will use his last {and only} two at Dartmouth.
Engel has guaranteed WC starts because of his NorAm SL crown. Who knows how many he will make. He's going to be juggling school, some NCAA races {he won't ski their whole schedule} and NorAms.
They you have the group who have been oh so close for a couple of years: Michael Ankeny, Robby Kelley, and Hig Roberts. All have made USST criteria in the past. All are now independents. Most coaches feel that all can significantly improve their skiing and results.
It has NOT happened with the USST.

So, Tiger is taking a tremendous amount of grief. I think for the first tome ever, some of the board is also not having much fun. That's a new one as most have been SO disengaged.

The Men's SL coach, who did close to nothing has been kept in the system and "promoted", I believe to be the Europa Cup Head tech coach. Guess that's how it works. The Head Men's coach, as we know, was not shown the door, and instead is the head of development. He has developed really no men over the past 10 years as the top dog. So what on earth suggests that he, and the staff he was in place, can now do things differently.

Folks who know what they are doing, and are not "old school" in their approach, upon seeing most of what was going on at the recent National Training Group sessions at Squaw and Mammoth were pretty upset. As in why on earth would a talented kid, coached by a talented people at his home club possibly spend money to go to more USST camps.

The reason? It's the USST, and the "pipeline" runs through that process. Might get you named to the team one day. Make you a skier capable of winning, or being on the podium at the WC level? Very suspect.

Watch. File this away. The men's development is going to be all about ONE skier. River Radamus. He has been referred to as "our future" many a time. Much like Mikaela was.

It is a mess......in so many ways. Four years ago Rearick was pontificating that we had to put MORE emphasis on SL. We can see how that worked out.

I am firmly convinced that the problem is the coaching, and programming. When our guys have reached the age to begin to ski on the WC, or the EC......they just do NOT progress on the tech side. With very rare exception.

I had though that even if they cleaned house, this would take a number of years to get back on track. Now........Jeez. What's going to change?

If they got rid of board members........That's a problem. Who is they? Does this board remove it's own members? Because they answer to nobody. The board nominates and elects their own members. Over the past years.....since Marolt days, the criteria is very simple. Have some interest in skiing. Best to have a home on a high end ski town, and a private jet. Hopefully work in finance, like private equity. Or be a hugely successful entrepreneur. Be so busy that you can't devote much time to this. And.....write a very big check once a year, VERY big, and stay out of the way. Don't ask questions.

The one who I know who broke the mold, and frankly ruffled a lot of feathers, and pissed people off was Dan Leever. Some on that board say he was abrasive, and "very difficult." Not how he would describe it, and his decision to leave it.

I think we're going to see the USST implode, and we will have a USST formed every four years for the Olympics. I firmly believe that there will be Americans racing on the WC, and skiers developed in this country, but not being driven and governed by the USST.

My sense is that the money and knowledgable support is getting fed up. Very much so. The sport. particularly at the top level in this country is just broken. And this was all discussed and well forecast 4-5-6 years ago, and before. Not New.

I'm going to be going dark on this topic very soon, as I have a couple of folks very close to me who hope to help solve this, and to be honest "I'll know too much" and "it can't be showing up in public." Besides, I sense that I'm coming off as bag of wind. I don't get paid for content on here...........

Sasha Rearick was a disaster of a move, an very predictable. Jesse Hunt might work out. He was equally predictable. However it's the same old faces, the same cast of characters........Tiger? Seriously? These guys are playing a solid decades old game.

We have some very good people working in the sport in this country. Are they in the team system? No way on earth. Some have been, and bailed. Others have been asked and ran the other way. It's a real mess. Unless you are named Shiffrin or Vonn, and have enormous support. That's your team.

Sad stuff.......

 

[Tricia]

@Muleski I sort of wondered if its the "darkest before the dawn".
Will this get so bad that there's no place to go but up, or is this the end of the WC Dream?
...or somewhere in the middle??

 

[Seldomski]

I think we're going to see the USST implode, and we will have a USST formed every four years for the Olympics. I firmly believe that there will be Americans racing on the WC, and skiers developed in this country, but not being driven and governed by the USST.

I would have to agree -- by cutting the entire Men's SL Team, USST is stating baldly that it is incompetent and dysfunctional.

 

[fatbob]

Why not just give it all up and start again? Surely you could do far worse than finding a few great club coaches under 45, a few older guys to mentor them ( but not interfere or overrule) and a leader from outside to enforce a clear and objective regime so everyone knows where they stand.

I know nothing of the politics but it strikes me from reading the musings of the better informed that destroying what has gone before might be necessary to build something better.

 

[Muleski]

I stand corrected on one thing. The former head WC SL coach elected not to stay on with the USST in another job, and is returning to SSCV {Vail}. He’s been with the team for six years. I think it’s an interesting move by the club that clearly aspires to be the very best by every measure.
I hear that he will be the head U16 coach. That’s a real core strength of SSCV. And as previously mentioned, in his two jobs with the team....head D team coach, then head SL coach he did not exactly light it on fire.
Fits the former Vail old. Vail guy, NCAA skier, head U14 coach when the program was not what it is today.
Vail has some very hands on parents, and this will be interesting. They would expect the best development coach available to be hired. He is a very good guy. Kids will respond to him, as will other coaches. Some of the coaches that he will manage may be FAR ahead of him in terms of 2018 skills coaching kids of that age.

Oh well.....best of luck to Ian and to SSCV. The USST jacket is great on the resume. Same old stuff. At some places.

Wanted to clear that up. He’s left the USST.

 

[Muleski]

@Muleski I sort of wondered if its the "darkest before the dawn".
Will this get so bad that there's no place to go but up, or is this the end of the WC Dream?
...or somewhere in the middle??

It's pretty bad. Can't really crater any more. The battle cry will be to start the development process all over again, with a younger crop of athletes, and bring them along to the top of the sport. While keeping the select few at the top supported as they chase globes, podiums and medals. That's a very tall order. Incredibly so.

My sense is that the WC dream continues, but that the USST as a goal or dream is less attractive. You do not need to be a USST athlete to ski on the WC. Yes, they control the entries, now. It sounds like a lot of the various national federations have become bloated, very self serving, and quite political. Much like the various Olympic governing bodies, like the IOC.

It could well be that we're at a point where some changes will be on the horizon. Many have suggested that WC ski racing should be more like bike racing, with factory teams. Or even like F1, to some degree. Not national teams....commerical enterprises. No more objective age based criteria to "be funded."

IMO, the woes of the USST have accelerated this, right now. I want to make it very clear that I'm guessing on this, and linking a few dots together. Nothing more.......

I do know a lot of athletes and families who are "just done" with the USST. And others who are quite confused by the whole mess.

This "No SL Team this year" was a very poorly communicated decision. No surprise. Their communication, IMO, is consistently poor. It shocks me that they didn't realize that this was going to go over like a lead ballon. Particularly when they team was touting SL as a big focus 4-5 years ago.

Pretty sad. We have the best female SL skier in the history of the sport, yet we are not even going to field a mens WC SL group? Budget? Just sad.....

 

[Jack skis]

No SL team this year? That's really a sad outcome. Something, or a bunch of someones screwed up badly. As nothing more that a fan, and supporter, of US ski racing there isn't anything I can do about the situation. Really hate to see this development, or should I say lack of development? Gwen and I supported the World Cup Dreams organization and some individual ski racers financially as best we could through the years, and in the future I'll continue to support that organization and individuals as I can, but I don't think it will make up for the inability of the USST to run a ski racing organization.

We should give a shoutout to the athletes who gave it a try, and to those who will continue their efforts to be out there on the course carrying the colors for the US on their own dime(s).

 

[Average Joe]

Unbelievable.
If they don't field a WC tech team, how do they expect to develop younger racers and advance them onto WC? Just throw them in?
No team = no experienced veterans to help the younger ones......

 

[James]

So when will the men's slalom team be reconstituted? Presumably they need a little time to get ready to collect all those Olympic medals in 2022. Certainly cancelling the team is a strange way to reach the 4 year goal of medals and sponsor cash. I guess "best in the world" can do it in two years?

 

[Muleski]

There is some verbiage at play here, too. Normally, the USST would have a “tech” team and coach. In recent years, we’ve seen more skiers skiing one event. Perhaps dabbling in a second. The men are NOT like MS, thinking of skiing all. Tommy Ford skis just GS. So does Ligety, for the most part. Nolan only skied SL, as did Robby Kelley last year. Daver skied some WC GS.

So the real need, and goal should be to get back to where the USST has as many guys as possible near the top of the WCSL in every event. Certainly in the top 30, better yet top 20, or higher. Last year we had three. Ford and Ligety in GS. Daver in SL. Nolan probably would have worked himself back.

This is going to take time, work, good skiing and luck. We have a history of getting people in decent starting positions who don’t do much with them. That’s not good. Right now, we need to get people who can start in the 40’s and possibly get second runs.

This is all not easy to achieve. The Europa Cup field is loaded with guys who are poised to score on the WC.

I have tried to make this point over and over. The key is to get guys ready to capitalize on the chances when they ski WC. Gaining WC experience is no bargain if you are not fast enough to get second runs. We have really failed to develop very solid NorAm skiers, exceptional juniors, NCAA champs, etc. into solid WC skiers. So much attrition, etc. That needs to be solved.

So a “SL Team” will possibly be funded and staffed when we have enough guys ready to ski full EC and WC schedules. No need for NorAm events here at home. That would be my guess.

The older guys showing the younger guys {applies to both genders} the way is a nice thought. Has been pretty rare in the past. It’s been a problem. Have our real stars been welcoming and encouraging over the years. Some have. But it sure has not been some team culture.

The bigger question, for me, which remains to be seen is just how many men we will have representing the USA in WC SL’s this season. They will almost all be independents, or very young. And no need to throw people to the wolves. I don’t know what that group looks like. I think a number are on the fence. In the words of one dad, “When is it time to end this charade?”

It’s a complete reboot. Guess they were not kidding about 2026. Long wait.

 

[Primoz]

To qualify to be fully-funded, you must have a top 15 World Cup Start List rank (WCSL).

So basically US team is Ligety with men, Shiffrin, Vonn, Johnson and Mckennis (who I heard just got injured) with women. That's pretty damn steep criteria... probably even for Austrians not to mention someone else.

 

[Average Joe]

Eliminating the USST support of a tech team is akin to cancelling your MLB franchise schedule because they didn’t reach the playoffs or World Series last year.
Your AAA Minor league farm team cannot magically produce players prepared for the major league without contributions from veteran talent and mentors.
I can’t think of a successful world level sports program similar to ski racing that believes that success is best achieved by eliminating its support of world level racing.
Comparisons to Team Shiffrin, Vonn, Ligety etc are sometimes irrelevant. The Team should be building the concept of a Team around Team oriented individuals, not eliminating them.

 

[Tricia]

So basically US team is Ligety with men, Shiffrin, Vonn, Johnson and Mckennis (who I heard just got injured) with women. That's pretty damn steep criteria... probably even for Austrians not to mention someone else.

Yeah, Alice McKennis suffered an injury at Mammoth. They are saying Tib/Fib injury but not specifying what the actual injury is.

https://usskiandsnowboard.org/news/downhiller-mckennis-suffers-injury-mammoth

 

[James]

That's pretty damn steep criteria... probably even for Austrians not to mention someone else.

Yes, exactly. Many nations over the years would have no skiers or 1 skier based on a top 15 criteria.

So, basically, they just came up with a criteria that sounds reasonable to casual fans but is really just a cover for getting rid of slalom sponsorship.

Hell, why not just get rid of the whole USST? Save the cost of paying admin.

 

[Tricia]

Meanwhile, the US platforms are giving scholarships to non US athletes.
I sure wish there was more emphasis put on developing US Athletes.