Base and edge bevel controls predictability of ski

[CalG]

Hi skibob,

I don't know that I have much to add to what Bob has written I didn't actually read this though I expect I did back when Bob posted it on Epic, but Bob and I have discussed the topic at length numerous times ...including @James need to detune skis from end-to-end!

What I would stress related to tuning is that in my opinion skis should be tuned after hours of skiing - not days, not weeks, not months, not seasons, but after each day ...or more frequently if warranted! Might be exception to the rule if conditions are such that the metal parts don't matter at all, but no harm in touching them up since you're going to have them on the bench anyway to wax them

It is usually pretty easy to keep everything in top notch condition with a little care routinely.

Here's a link to a post including a PDF version of the PPT Bob refers to.

Recognize that "hour of use based tuning cycles" can do NOTHING to decrease increasing base angles.

It least I have not seen an effective method for the DIY to lower the P-Tex base.

 

[Chris Geib]

Well I do recognize the bevel will increase over time for many reasons and have no issue with that point of view, but it is a different point and does not negate the benefit of maintaining ones edges. It is still true that one can maintain a sharp edge even if not maintaining a specific angle. In most cases the "perfect" angle is not nearly as important as whatever angle being sharp.

Personally I think that more base grinds can actually result in increasing the life of the ski as you get to attend to that wear from both the side edge and the base edge. To see this draw a 90* corner of some dimension, then chamfer a corner to simulate wear, then work at how far you would have to go to restore that corner to a point by:
removing material from the side edge only,
removing material from the base edge only,
working equally on both

Then repeat that exercise with the typically more obtuse angle on the base edge...

 

[James]

You can use the Ski Visions with a stone regularly. Some do. That'll be your structure though.
Wasn't Bob a practitioner?

 

[Brian Finch]

That's good, so if you spin around on the hip, then pop up, keep going the way you were going, that's the Polish Donut. Right now you're just a donut hole.

Not going for that - just want to keep up with the wife better!

 

[skibob]

View attachment 72749

^


Torso inside of the skis in the turn

LOL, nice illustration. That's kind of what I thought. And more base bevel would help with that because you would be more inside when the edges hook up? What benefit does this bring?

It seems like if you go too far that angular momentum is working against them hooking up? IOW, the skis wanting to slide out from under you.

 

[MarkP]

Attempting a Polish Donut?

Edit: A tempting batch of...

Baked Paczki (Polish Donuts)
https://www.curiouscuisiniere.com/paczki/

 

[James]

Not great, but that's the idea.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....whoops. Nevermind.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I’ve been considering going to 1-1.5 on the base from .5 to get further inside & lesser hooky.... thoughts?

I’ve ski 0.5 all the time, because of the response. In most cases hooky skis are caused by 3 things:

• The first and foremost a poor tune left a hanging burr. Check your tune.
• The second, a poor ski/boot/stance setup. Easy check look at tracks, does the track look like it shimmies (good) or does it look like its on edge constantly running straight. (In your case, likely not).
• Third, skier that doesn’t ski neutral and doesn’t have edge feel. See above for issues.

The last two are sometimes both applicable. Balance drills (360 spins and the like) in all conditions, cures this (makes the skier do the final adaptation). Ultimately this makes you a better skier. IMHO I hate detuning a ski to to assist in making it easier to ski. Just remember a perfect static setup may not be the ideal running setup in terms of ski/boot/stance.

In all fairness, if needed, go a 1, it is a fair compromise. The slight loss in response will likely not be noticed by most. This is my go to set for skiers the need just a little forgiveness.

1.5 is starts to hinder response. Something I’d almost never suggest.

Final note there are some skis that may require very soft edges, speed skis to name one. Others can better comment of this.

 

[François Pugh]

I use a 0.5 base 3 side on my favourite carving skis. I use 1,2 on the skis that see more moguls. The difference is very noticeable, with returns in ability to control feathering in short radius turns outwieghing loss of precision for that type of turn and the gains in precision outwieghing loss of forgiveness for carved turns.

 

[oldschoolskier]

https://www.pugski.com/forums/video-and-photography-stoke.47/

Check out this thread and @Jacques posting re his set up.

Best of both worlds. Aggressive setup, good edge control and balance. No problems.

Its simple, a good ski with a good tune and a little skill make for a great experience and performance.

 

[Jacques]

https://www.pugski.com/forums/video-and-photography-stoke.47/

Check out this thread and @Jacques posting re his set up.

Best of both worlds. Aggressive setup, good edge control and balance. No problems.

Its simple, a good ski with a good tune and a little skill make for a great experience and performance.

1 & 4 tune Old K2 Apache Recon's
https://photocentral.smugmug.com/AA-Guest-Upload/GuestUpload/n-9FxxsR/i-XF5gf24/A