California/Nevada Avalanche at Alpine Meadows

[Tricia]

Alpine Mdws. or nearby, who can give information on the consistency of the snow that fell? Dry or moist? Light or dense? Wind drifted or wind packed?

This past week, I skied Mt Rose Tuesday, and Squaw Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
Friday, when the storm came in it came in dry and windy. Very cold snow that resembled snow we get in Colorado. I didn't feel much moisture in the snow until around 1:00 on Friday. In fact, when I met up with @Bob Barnes around noon on Friday, he said that the snow he and his client were skiing between Squaw Creek and Red Dog was incredibly light.
Even though there was some snow on the trees in areas like Toms Thumb at Squaw, there are other trees that weren't laden with snow. I'm betting it had more to do with the facing aspect and where the wind came from.
I really think that places like Squaw and Alpine Meadows have a variety of conditions based on the multiple different facing aspects of the mountains.

 

[mdf]

variety of conditions

I really noticed this last weekend skiing in new snow (not Tahoe). In fact, half way down one long pitch I remarked to the person I was skiing with that the snow felt very different from the top of the run.

 

[Alexzn]

@Tricia i think that area is called Tom’s Tumble. Much more dramatic this way

 

[Tricia]

Toms Thumb

@Tricia i think that area is called Tom’s Tumble. Much more dramatic this way

Doh! You're right.
Why do I always call it Tom's Thumb

 

[ZionPow]

I’d imagine patrol will be super cautious tomorrow. Fatal avalanche accidents are not supposed to happen Inbounds at a ski resort.

I am confident that the Alpine Patrol was "super cautious" on the day of the accident as all patrols that I am familiar with are "super cautious" every day. Inbounds avalanches can and do occur in any avalanche prone terrain whether backcountry or inbounds. As @4ster states, the mountains are not Disneyland and the patrol cannot completely eliminate the risk. That is why it is called avalanche mitigation not avalanche elimination. There has been a tremendous amount of study, training and historical documentation at all ski areas that have avalanche terrain. The technology and understanding of the metamorphosis of snow and the mechanics of how avalanches release has significantly increased over time but the risk will probably never be completely eliminated. The snowpack characteristics are constantly changing with time, temperature and wind effects. Inbounds avalanches are very unfortunate but are very rare.

 

[SSSdave]

(Update: phony news image deleted)

Image of where it broke per above news site (if indeed this is an actual image of that area and not some stock image).

So very tearfully sad. RIP and comfort loved ones especially his young wife.

So it appears, near that windy ridge line where snow had wind pack accumulated against the very rocky substrate in that area, the wind packed snow by unfortunate chance coincidence broke off as heavy chunky avalanche blocks that rolled down accelerating quickly due to gravity on the steep slope, and pounded into the two skiers below that then additionally possibly crushed them against trees obstacles causing bodily trauma.

An act of nature. We see such features on many of our Tahoe resort slope rocky areas. Rarely do they collapse so. Kirkwood has many at its ridge lines. Thus this is just another type of potential danger that advanced skiers that visit such areas face that each of us must accept as part of the game we play much like with climbers placing single point protection on cliffs where historically solid placement rock just suddenly fails.

 

[dbostedo]

https://www.ktnv.com/news/1-dead-1-injured-in-avalanche-near-lake-tahoe
Image of where it broke per above news site (if indeed this is an actual image of that area and not some stock image).

So very tearfully sad. RIP and comfort loved ones especially his young wife.

So it appears, near that windy ridge line where snow had wind pack accumulated against the very rocky substrate in that area, the wind packed snow by unfortunate chance coincidence broke off as heavy chunky avalanche blocks that rolled down accelerating quickly due to gravity on the steep slope, and pounded into the two skiers below that then additionally possibly crushed them against trees obstacles causing bodily trauma.

An act of nature. We see such features on many of our Tahoe resort slope rocky areas. Rarely do they collapse so. Kirkwood has many at its ridge lines. Thus this is just another type of potential danger that advanced skiers that visit such areas face that each of us must accept as part of the game we play much like with climbers placing single point protection on cliffs where historically solid placement rock just suddenly fails.

That is a stock pic and has been used in several avalanche articles over the years... it is NOT the Alpine Meadows slide!

One example https://www.fox23.com/news/trending...aska-snowboarders/X4MDMNIGXZDFRLOWVLCHLEIPL4/

EDIT: And here it is on the stock page: https://pixabay.com/photos/avalanche-glacier-seracs-ice-2518679/

 

[SSSdave]

Thanks dbostedo, as I wondered about that since it didn't seem to fit with the limited at a distance other images of that zone . Annoying how news sites will inject such image into stories without disclaimers. On another news site image, it appeared snow may have slid off a steeply slanted rock shelf.

 

[dbostedo]

Thanks dbostedo, as I wondered about that since it didn't seem to fit with the limited at a distance other images of that zone . Annoying how news sites will inject such image into stories without disclaimers. On another news site image, it appeared snow may have slid off a steeply slanted rock shelf.

If you do a Google reverse image search, it's very easy to find if the pic is used anywhere else. If you're using the Chrome browser in Windows, it's built into the right click menu. Right-click and select "Search Google for Image".

 

[Alexzn]

@ZionPow you are stating the obvious. Every time a fatal avalanche occurs inbounds is an extraordinary occurrence. And in some way it does represent a failure of the mitigation effort. Nobody is trying to blame patrol for this it is nature and things happen, but there must be some lessons learned. These guys (patrol) are great and they work their asses off to try to keep everyone safe. Im sure they are heartbroken over what happened. Lessons learned are helpful, Monday morning quarterbacking is not helpful.

 

[Rainbow Jenny]

@Tricia i think that area is called Tom’s Tumble. Much more dramatic this way

Patrollers call it Townsend.

 

[dbostedo]

Monday morning quarterbacking is not helpful.

FWIW, I didn't read @ZionPow 's statement as Monday morning quarterbacking. I think he/she was just pointing out that patrol doesn't go from "cautious" to "super-cautious". They do a tough job and do it according to knowledge and policies, but can't completely mitigate the risk. I.e. they are doing their best all the time in tough circumstances. I'm not sure where you see MMQB'ing in that. (Note, MMQB'ing is someone saying, with the benefit of hindsight, "clearly patrol should have done x, or y".)

 

[Unpiste]

And photos posted above are not from UnofficialAlpine.com, they were posted at UnofficialSqualpine.com. I'm definitely not the guy to post pics from an accident scene involving a death.

Thanks for the extremely informative post.

I don’t quite understand the hesitation to post pictures, though. I don’t need to see probe lines, up close pictures of injuries, etc., but I ski that area, I know people who ski that area, and I know where they like to ski. A picture is by far the best way to understand what happened and where, especially right after the incident. I probably don’t know the name of 90% of what I ski, and really only the patrol map has enough detail to identify specific chutes. No amount of written description would have told me exactly where the slide happened.

 

[SSSdave]

Thanks for the extremely informative post.

I don’t quite understand the hesitation to post pictures, though. I don’t need to see probe lines, up close pictures of injuries, etc., but I ski that area, I know people who ski that area, and I know where they like to ski. A picture is by far the best way to understand what happened and where, especially right after the incident. I probably don’t know the name of 90% of what I ski, and really only the patrol map has enough detail to identify specific chutes. No amount of written description would have told me exactly where the slide happened.

Re-read the posts and go to the link I posted. The picture you see on the top that linked page is what I originally posted and later deleted. It is not an image related to what happened at alpine but rather some unrelated stock image in the tv station's image inventory they annoyingly added for the sake of making their news article look more interesting for use on news search engines for the sake of click ad money.

 

[Unpiste]

To be clear, I have what I was looking for and I know there was an unrelated picture deleted. I also know that everyone I know who might have been at Alpine yesterday is okay.

I was mostly commenting on why I was asking for a picture, and curious to see whether others felt differently.

 

[Mendieta]

Rest in peace, Cole. Hope you are skiing sweet clouds up there, and may your family and friends have solace in knowing you left this world doing what you love.

Picture credit.

 

[Tricia]

I had a chance to talk to my co-worker about this today. (@Mendieta you skied with her and me at Sugarbowl last year
As stated earlier, I've skied with both of these guys with her at Squaw last year.
She said that there were four of them in the group in an area that was open,(just to clarify if anyone is wondering if it was a closed area). Two of them made it to the bottom while the other two got caught in a minor slide that had big consequences.
The survivor (I know his name but won't post it out of respect) has two broken legs, a shoulder injury and minor internal injuries. (not that any internal injury is minor)

This circle of friends is pretty devastated.
Imagine, you're 20-somethings working your butts off in a ski town just so you can experience these amazing powder days and one day you get the text that your friend just .....well.....

 

[4ster]

Monday morning quarterbacking is not helpful.

Pretty sure @ZionPow is an experienced patroller at a Class A Avalanche resort. I don’t read his post as ”Monday morning quarterbacking”

This is a tragic event that hits close to home for many on here & any speculating should probably be discussed in the inbounds avalanche thread.

 

[Alexzn]

Pretty sure @ZionPow is an experienced patroller at a Class A Avalanche resort. I don’t read his post as ”Monday morning quarterbacking”

This is a tragic event that hits close to home for many on here & any speculating should probably be discussed in the inbounds avalanche thread.

To clarify, I was referring to the general discussion in this thread, not to the particular post of @ZionPow

i still think that (A) blaming patrol is not helpful. (B) Saying “this is backcountry” is not helpful either, because it is not backcountry, it is a resort and your expectation of risk is fundamentally different.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Doh! You're right.
Why do I always call it Tom's Thumb

Maybe because the skier right of entry to Whale's Tail is called Tom's Thumb? That came from an original photo map of the area that was covered by the thumb of a guy named Tom.