Are your local MTB trails actually be dumbed down?

[Josh Matta]

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/rocky-mountain-pipeline-wade-simmons-video.html

or are today's trail bikes just that good?

 

[AmyPJ]

I don't know, but if that bike could help me ride that stuff, I'd buy it.

 

[skibob]

Funny, there was a Rocky Mount Bicycle van parked outside Sports Exchange in Truckee (yes, it was a long way from "home") a few weeks ago, with a few of these hanging off the back. I was drooling over them until my son snapped me out of it, "Daddy, why are you staring at those bikes?". Kids.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

What's funny is I rode a Rocky Mountain +size bike last year and thought it made my trails feel worse.

 

[crgildart]

For that much cash it should come with a motor.

 

[Josh Matta]

For that much cash it should come with a motor.

not really. Plus you most singletracks are not open to bike with motors anyways.

It far easier to engineer stuff when its trying to be as light as possible to powered by a human. as well its far easier to engineer suspension that does not have to compensate for motor that make power by not making perfect circles. Its expensive yes but it easy enough to buy cheaper bikes else where. Those cheaper bike will almost never be as good as a nicer lighter, more efficient bike so you do what you paid for.

 

[Philpug]

The difference between a $1,500 bike (equivelent to a $600 package ski) and a $4,000 bike (a $1K ski binding combo) is much greater than the examples I used. I and sure @Josh Matta or @epic can fine tune that comparison but with bikes you usually get what you pay for, which is less (weight) and much more efficiency.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

What's crazy is that you can easily buy a $12,000 bike off the rack now. When I bought my daughter's new bike this weekend someone said "I could buy a good motorcycle for that much". My question was "could you buy Eli Tomac's motorcycle for that much?" .The only way I can possibly justify that (and I don't have a $12,000 bike) is that you can't buy Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes, you can't buy an America's Cup Yacht, you can't buy an F-22, but you can buy the Aaron Gwin's bike or Fabian Cancellara's bike.

 

[scott43]

It's easy to get off on a tangent about cost. Bottom line is, if you have no budget there is no need to talk about it. Buy the most expensive stuff, it IS better. But most people have a budget..and at that point it's important to talk about where money is best spent. It's equivalent in skiing to saying, "I have $1000..do I buy good boots or skis?" Is a light bike important? Yeah, but if you have limited funds, and you actually intend to ride, factor in good shoes, pedals, shorts, saddle, fit. THEN start thinking about where to lose weight on the bike. Let's put Walmart bikes aside for now though..

 

[skibob]

and you actually intend to ride, factor in good shoes, pedals, shorts, saddle, fit. THEN start thinking about where to lose weight on the bike. Let's put Walmart bikes aside for now though..

Shorts? What are those for?

 

[jmeb]

I ride a 26er hardtail with V-brakes all around CO. Nothing ever feels dumbed down.

I'm worried about my pocked book when my buddy who runs a shop brings me a FS trail bike from Kenosha -> Georgia -> Breck this June.

 

[skibob]

By the way, as to the question posed in the thread title:

As I mentioned before, I live near the birthplace of mountain biking (Mt Tamalpais, just north of San Francisco). Annadel State Park is famous for its "technical" trails. I can actually ride there easily from my house (~3 miles, mostly on path). But, as I also mentioned, I am more a fan of cross country riding. Still, if you like rocks (I don't), its not dumbed down, although its very different from the trails in the video:

 

[Superbman]

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/rocky-mountain-pipeline-wade-simmons-video.html

or are today's trail bikes just that good?

Yeah, they're that good. All the talk about cost...i'll throw in the other caveat that a 2100.00 bike today is better in every single component and category than a 6,500 bike 10 years ago...and 2006 was 15 years into my mountain biking life (and not so long ago!). Seriously, a fully loaded Ventana from 2006 (hell, 2010!) couldn't compete with an 1800.00 Kona today. Suffice it to say, much like skis, bikes have never been better...nor more varied in what you might buy (fat, plus, big travel, no travel, DH, Enduro, race SS, wheels sizes galore...)

Trail dumbing?? Yes and no-I'm not a fan of machine built trails outside of bike parks (though, I do like them in Bike parks), but there's still plenty of challenging, complex trails out there-served up by graduates of both the old and new schools. Between I-90 in Massachusetts, VT's eastern Border, southern 2/3s of NH there's a 1000 miles of world class biker built single track-99.5% of it NOT part of Kingdom Trail (not to mention copious bike park options)-dumb or brilliant, a New England biker has no shortage of trail experiences to choose from...and the same is true in almost every region of the US and Canada. No reason to dwell on the past, we're in the Mountain biking Golden age! Yee ha!

 

[Josh Matta]

I really think new machine built trails are not always bad. The well designed ones are really fun. its a shame that IMO their are only 2 really well designed machine built trails in all of Vermont. Flo in Stowe, and the Orange Trail in Northfield. Go ride those and let me know if you really think machine built trails only have a place in Bike parks.

Yes there are 2-3k bike out there that are flat out amazing in their scope of what they can do. especially if you are willing to go direct to manufactor and have the skills to assemble your own bike properly.

http://www.commencalusa.com/meta-trail-red-2016-c2x17825818 buy this put a dropper on it and there are very few bike around that are actually as good all around as it for less than 3500 dollars.

 

[AmyPJ]

I ride a 26er hardtail with V-brakes all around CO. Nothing ever feels dumbed down.

I'm worried about my pocked book when my buddy who runs a shop brings me a FS trail bike from Kenosha -> Georgia -> Breck this June.

You are right to be worried. Start saving now!

 

[neonorchid]

Shorts? What are those for?

- ask in Philly, same answer -

 

[Mike Thomas]

Mountain biking has reached a weird tipping point, in my opinion. An entire industry has emerged based on building purpose-built 'multi-use' trails (new legal trails are almost always designated 'multi-use' these days). On the one hand, it is wonderful to have communities sanctioning legal bike trails and often supplying the $$ to do so. This has lead to advocacy groups and professional trail building businesses, guys who design and build well thought out trails that can withstand the increased usage that these 'ride centers' see. On the other hand, these community built trails are generally built to be 'inclusive' which basically means 'easy'. The idea seems to be generate tourism based on the bike trails, these tourist spend $$ in local businesses, the businesses do better so the community does better and more trails get built- everyone wins. The problem is, the vast majority of people who volunteer to help build and maintain these ride centers are the local riders who are NOT beginner riders. The majority of people willing to travel to ride mt bikes are NOT beginner riders... so why is all of the focus being placed on "attracting new riders"? From where? have you seen what a modern mountain bike costs??? Bike pricing has gone insane, no one in their right mind would jump into this sport if they didn't already love it. Someone from the bicycle manufacturing industry needs to talk with someone from the advocacy industry. The major manufacturers are in an arms race to build the most over the top expensive 'super bike', but none of them are trying to build a well thought out bike that can be sold at a reasonable price that would attract a new rider who intends to really ride trail. The kids bike market is even worse. So why is the vast majority of resources being spent in advocacy on building easy trails in the hopes of generating a ground swell of new participants? Build a beginner loop, build a wet weather loop... then build the trails that the people who are doing the work of building want to ride. If you have a shovel/ pulaski or McLeod in your hands, you have voice and a vote, If not f*** right the f*** off. <end rant>

(by the way, the shore trails in the video are a mess. That's what you get when you let people ride when it is too wet).

 

[AmyPJ]

Power Mountain is putting in a series of trails that are designed for different skill levels. I personally LOVE what is going to be considered the beginner/intermediate trail. (It's currently the only trail they have, I believe the advanced trail is being cut this summer.) I have no desire to ride anything much more challenging, as it is challenging enough for me. There are rocks, table top rocks, roots, switchbacks, (very well designed ones that even I can ride) a series of jumps--my advanced rider friends also really enjoy this trail. One very cool thing about it is there are occasional "advanced features" that parallel the trail, so you nutso advanced riders can pop off on the side and get your jollies. It's about a 6-mile loop, but they are expanding it to be a lollipop which I believe will make it 10 miles. We used to ride it twice to get 12 miles if we had the time.

I think it's just really challenging to design trails that appeal to everybody. It's also unfair to poo-poo those of us who prefer the not-so-gnarly stuff, as if we are of a lesser status in society or the world or something. Somehow, this Powder Mountain trail has been designed to appeal to a LOT of different skill levels. A good blueprint for others, maybe?

http://www.grindtv.com/travel/powder-mountain-kicks-mountain-bike-program/#FltCT5LXlRK21VSi.97

I love this pic in the article above, as that big peak in the background? That's Snowbasin Where I do most of my biking (and of course, skiing!)

 

[skibob]

- ask in Philly, same answer - View attachment 6296

That's what I get for being cheeky . .

 

[Josh Matta]

Mountain biking has reached a weird tipping point, in my opinion. An entire industry has emerged based on building purpose-built 'multi-use' trails (new legal trails are almost always designated 'multi-use' these days). On the one hand, it is wonderful to have communities sanctioning legal bike trails and often supplying the $$ to do so. This has lead to advocacy groups and professional trail building businesses, guys who design and build well thought out trails that can withstand the increased usage that these 'ride centers' see. On the other hand, these community built trails are generally built to be 'inclusive' which basically means 'easy'. The idea seems to be generate tourism based on the bike trails, these tourist spend $$ in local businesses, the businesses do better so the community does better and more trails get built- everyone wins. The problem is, the vast majority of people who volunteer to help build and maintain these ride centers are the local riders who are NOT beginner riders. The majority of people willing to travel to ride mt bikes are NOT beginner riders... so why is all of the focus being placed on "attracting new riders"? From where? have you seen what a modern mountain bike costs??? Bike pricing has gone insane, no one in their right mind would jump into this sport if they didn't already love it. Someone from the bicycle manufacturing industry needs to talk with someone from the advocacy industry. The major manufacturers are in an arms race to build the most over the top expensive 'super bike', but none of them are trying to build a well thought out bike that can be sold at a reasonable price that would attract a new rider who intends to really ride trail. The kids bike market is even worse. So why is the vast majority of resources being spent in advocacy on building easy trails in the hopes of generating a ground swell of new participants? Build a beginner loop, build a wet weather loop... then build the trails that the people who are doing the work of building want to ride. If you have a shovel/ pulaski or McLeod in your hands, you have voice and a vote, If not f*** right the f*** off. <end rant>

(by the way, the shore trails in the video are a mess. That's what you get when you let people ride when it is too wet).

bet lets face it, the new trails in Stowe are not even that easy. There is still no beginner MTB trails in Stowe.

As for the Shore trails, a mess maybe, but I bet they looked like that 10 years ago as well, for sure not dumbed down. Heck they look fun as hell beside the part I am sure would freeze up on and have to walk.

I also think that Commenceal, YT and Canyon are actually trying to bring nicer bikes to more people<those who can at least assemble their own bike) at the expense of local bike shops which obviously brings me mixed feeling, but until the brands that bike shops carry figure out some way to compete, the trend will be bike shops with 3500 dollar budget models and online direct to consumer companies selling a very similar spec for alittle more than half of that.