For Carl Lewis, the 100m and 200m were the first part of the skills necessary for the long jump. He knew how to adjust his speed in the first 20m before his jump.
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Analogy for Ledecka's gold medals in skiing and snowboarding?
For Carl Lewis, the 100m and 200m were the first part of the skills necessary for the long jump. He knew how to adjust his speed in the first 20m before his jump.
And historically the best long jumpers were also world class as sprinters....velocity at takeoff being of huge importance.
Powell and Lewis come to top of mind as winners in both, but the rest were all good sprinters as well.
Triple jump however has significantly different technique and you don’t find the best sprinters doing nearly as well in that event due to very different technical demands.
Powell and Lewis come to top of mind as winners in both, but the rest were all good sprinters as well.
Triple jump however has significantly different technique and you don’t find the best sprinters doing nearly as well in that event due to very different technical demands.
I think an argument can be proposed that at WC racing level, Slalom and Downhill are sufficiently different skill sets to qualify as 2 unique sports. Anyone winning both Gold Medals, especially in the same Olympics, would be as shocking as this years Women's Super G.
Has anyone ever done that?
Very quick purusal says no.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_alpine_skiing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_alpine_skiing
Very quick purusal says no for women. It looks like Killy did for the men
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_alpine_skiing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_alpine_skiing
Ja, in 1968 Killy won golds in SL, GS and DH.
Great quote from a sports psychology article on the Lessons from PC:
"Ester Ledecka had that extremely rare combination of experience and no experience. Let me explain. Ledecka did have experience as a snowboard racer who competed in Sochi, Russia in 2014. As the gold medalist in the snowboard parallel giant slalom at the 2017 World Championships, she has shown that can she rise to the occasion in big events. At the same time, she had zero experience and no expectations placed on her as she competed in the women’s Super G event in Pyeongchang. This unique combination served her well as she came out of nowhere (her best SG finish on the World Cup had been 19th) to win the SG gold medal."
http://www.drjimtaylor.com/4.0/lessons-learned-pyeongchang/
"Ester Ledecka had that extremely rare combination of experience and no experience. Let me explain. Ledecka did have experience as a snowboard racer who competed in Sochi, Russia in 2014. As the gold medalist in the snowboard parallel giant slalom at the 2017 World Championships, she has shown that can she rise to the occasion in big events. At the same time, she had zero experience and no expectations placed on her as she competed in the women’s Super G event in Pyeongchang. This unique combination served her well as she came out of nowhere (her best SG finish on the World Cup had been 19th) to win the SG gold medal."
http://www.drjimtaylor.com/4.0/lessons-learned-pyeongchang/
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Besides Killy in '68, Toni Sailer also swept the DH, GS, SL Golds in '56 Cortina Olympics. Rosi Mittermaier won the Women's DH and SL in '76 Innsbruck ( and Silver in GS) . Those are the only ones I recall.
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The greatest hitter ever and a decorated Navy pilot?
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Rosi was basically a SL racer and this Olympic DH was the only "big" DH she ever won in her 10 years since 1966. Without Annemarie that season there was no clear favorite and she had her happy days in Innsbruck.
In the 2002 Olympics Janica Kostelic won Gold in SL, GS, Combined & a Silver in SG. I don't think she raced the DH but she was on such a tear those weeks, I wouldn't have been surprised if she could've medaled in the DH. She had never placed top 10 in GS before that.
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Let´s not forget Lasse Kjus and his WCs 1999: world champion SG, GS, 2nd DH (+.31), SL (+.11), combined (+.16).
SkiRacing.com has asked the question and was soliciting comments on FB.
Was Ester Ledecka’s Super-G Win Good For Our Sport?
World Champion snowboarder Ester Ledecka pulled the upset of the ages in PyeongChang, winning the women's super-G by 0.01 seconds over Austria's Anna Veith. She won Olympic gold in parallel GS snowboarding just a week later. The Czech athlete rides a snowboard and shreds on skis, creating a conundrum for the alpine skiing community: Is her super-G win an embarrassment for the field of full-time skiers or does it boost people's interest in a declining sport?
https://www.skiracing.com/premium/was-ester-ledeckas-super-g-win-good-for-our-sport
My opinion, it was a stupid question.
Was Ester Ledecka’s Super-G Win Good For Our Sport?
World Champion snowboarder Ester Ledecka pulled the upset of the ages in PyeongChang, winning the women's super-G by 0.01 seconds over Austria's Anna Veith. She won Olympic gold in parallel GS snowboarding just a week later. The Czech athlete rides a snowboard and shreds on skis, creating a conundrum for the alpine skiing community: Is her super-G win an embarrassment for the field of full-time skiers or does it boost people's interest in a declining sport?
https://www.skiracing.com/premium/was-ester-ledeckas-super-g-win-good-for-our-sport
My opinion, it was a stupid question.
The article is messed up as it's labelled point/counterpoint but both responses are saying that it's good for the sport.
The "point" writer who is to write the "Yes" response, was answering is it Good for our Sport.
The "counterpoint" writer who is to write the "No" response mixed up the question or was given the wrong prompt, as he supposes and is answering the question is it "Bad for our sport".
The only point of credit is at least they didn't go full internet clickbait, where you Title using the hottest take (Is Ledecka's Gold is Bad for Our sport, question mark") , even though the rest of your article doesn't agree to it.
The general rule for clickbait articles is if a title uses a ?, it is generally fake news and can immediately be answered as No. If there were any real facts, evidence or journalistic practices, an article would not need the question mark, the question mark is a weasel clause to just pique readers; or to put that fake idea into people's minds without actually saying it.
The "point" writer who is to write the "Yes" response, was answering is it Good for our Sport.
The "counterpoint" writer who is to write the "No" response mixed up the question or was given the wrong prompt, as he supposes and is answering the question is it "Bad for our sport".
The only point of credit is at least they didn't go full internet clickbait, where you Title using the hottest take (Is Ledecka's Gold is Bad for Our sport, question mark") , even though the rest of your article doesn't agree to it.
The general rule for clickbait articles is if a title uses a ?, it is generally fake news and can immediately be answered as No. If there were any real facts, evidence or journalistic practices, an article would not need the question mark, the question mark is a weasel clause to just pique readers; or to put that fake idea into people's minds without actually saying it.
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Well except 18 WCup starts in SuperG and Downhill. Hardly zero experience. No expectations is definitely true.
Eventually, the story will be she sat next to Mikaela at lunch at the Olympics and started talking. Mikaela says at one point, " You should try Super G."
To which Ledecka responds, "Wel, I don't have any super g skis."
Mikaela, " You can use my skis!"
If Lindsey hadn't blown that turn at the bottom she'd have beaten everyone by 7/10ths and Ledecka would have been second. An equally as impressive finish, but we wouldn't be talking about it as much.
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Imho, it´s both embarrassing for the “specialists” (a girl with such a racing history shouldn´t have beaten champions like Vonn, Veith, Gut, Weirather, Goggia) and good because it made a unique story that addressed millions of people who would have hardly noticed if a Goggia or Weirather had won (a girl they never heard of from a country they can´t spot winning a weird event – neither DH nor SL).
The winners are: Ester & her team, Atomic, IOC (had its sensational story), to some extent Czech skiing and its national federation.
Boosting people´s interest in declining sports? Did they mean Alpine SB? It´s not only declining but hardly surviving with PSL out of the Olympics.
Did they mean Alpine racing or SG? I don´t think it can help much. The future of super-G may be questionable. February 2017 Waldner suggested it might disappear from the WC in five years. It may have been just a way to test the reaction, but who knows? With so many ski disciplines, events and races something will most probably have to be left out at the Olympics...
Unfortunately I can´t read the premium article on Ski Racing but I read the FB comments. Just repeating the superficcial stuff already published. Trust me, if you had read the comments here incl. mine based on more detailed info from Czech media and esp. on my conversation with Tomas Bank we/you definitely know more than the Ski Racing gang and its readers.
“If Lindsey hadn't blown that turn at the bottom she'd have beaten everyone by 7/10ths and Ledecka would have been second. An equally as impressive finish, but we wouldn't be talking about it as much.”(#36 James)
Yes. If Goggia hadn´t blown her turn in the middle section (leading there with Ester 0.53 behind), if Lindsey hadn´t blown her last turn, if Anna hadn´t been only 14th in the second section... If, if, if. Fact is, Ester´s sections (excluding the first of 6 sec.) were 8th, 3rd, 6th – the only one not worse anywhere than 10th. Veith also 14th, Lins 17th and 14th, Weirather 20th, Gut 16th, Goggia 34th – they all lost too much time somewhere.
Of course, Lindsey would have probably won if she raced later and not with bib 1. A big disadvantage, Otoh, she deserved her 10th rank on WCSL.
(Btw, last Saturday at the Crans Montana SG Weirather had bib 7 and she told the German TV she could watch the first four (Schmidhofer, Veith,...), see the softer snow didn´t allow for too direct line and adjust hers accordingly. She won, Anna, bib 3, blew the last turn = 2nd.)
Ester could have been 3rd and she would have been happy as well.
Just imagine she would have won some of the WC races before. It would have been great news for the Alpine racing world, her SB racing community and for the Czechs but hardly anyone would remember these days anymore. Even if a real tough WC race (not only Hahnenkammrennen) is often more difficult to win than the Olympic contest..
The winners are: Ester & her team, Atomic, IOC (had its sensational story), to some extent Czech skiing and its national federation.
Boosting people´s interest in declining sports? Did they mean Alpine SB? It´s not only declining but hardly surviving with PSL out of the Olympics.
Did they mean Alpine racing or SG? I don´t think it can help much. The future of super-G may be questionable. February 2017 Waldner suggested it might disappear from the WC in five years. It may have been just a way to test the reaction, but who knows? With so many ski disciplines, events and races something will most probably have to be left out at the Olympics...
Unfortunately I can´t read the premium article on Ski Racing but I read the FB comments. Just repeating the superficcial stuff already published. Trust me, if you had read the comments here incl. mine based on more detailed info from Czech media and esp. on my conversation with Tomas Bank we/you definitely know more than the Ski Racing gang and its readers.
“If Lindsey hadn't blown that turn at the bottom she'd have beaten everyone by 7/10ths and Ledecka would have been second. An equally as impressive finish, but we wouldn't be talking about it as much.”(#36 James)
Yes. If Goggia hadn´t blown her turn in the middle section (leading there with Ester 0.53 behind), if Lindsey hadn´t blown her last turn, if Anna hadn´t been only 14th in the second section... If, if, if. Fact is, Ester´s sections (excluding the first of 6 sec.) were 8th, 3rd, 6th – the only one not worse anywhere than 10th. Veith also 14th, Lins 17th and 14th, Weirather 20th, Gut 16th, Goggia 34th – they all lost too much time somewhere.
Of course, Lindsey would have probably won if she raced later and not with bib 1. A big disadvantage, Otoh, she deserved her 10th rank on WCSL.
(Btw, last Saturday at the Crans Montana SG Weirather had bib 7 and she told the German TV she could watch the first four (Schmidhofer, Veith,...), see the softer snow didn´t allow for too direct line and adjust hers accordingly. She won, Anna, bib 3, blew the last turn = 2nd.)
Ester could have been 3rd and she would have been happy as well.
Just imagine she would have won some of the WC races before. It would have been great news for the Alpine racing world, her SB racing community and for the Czechs but hardly anyone would remember these days anymore. Even if a real tough WC race (not only Hahnenkammrennen) is often more difficult to win than the Olympic contest..
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@checkracer, what's your guess on her future plans? I think that's what is on a lot of people's minds. People in the sport. I really appreciate your insight and comments. The type of insight that you get from people who "know" is just different. And in the case of this, Gabbi and Sean, the two SR writers, while they know a lot about what's going on in North America and with the USST and CAST, just don't likely have much insight.
The rumors that I hear are that there's going to be a lot of financial "incentive" for her to become a full time WC speed skier. Then some of us hear that that may not be a driver for her. Money. And she might stubbornly continue with both. I'd just guess {no more} that without deducting herself to alpine full time, we're going to see he doing very well to break into the top ten on the classic hills, and maybe doing better on some of the easier hills....like Lake Louise.
If she goes all in.....wow. All I hear is that she is a "freak of nature" athlete, with the right mental attitude. Exceptionally strong. Could be that her snowboarding experience does bring something extra and special to the table.
So......all alpine soon, or continued split of both?
Thanks!
The rumors that I hear are that there's going to be a lot of financial "incentive" for her to become a full time WC speed skier. Then some of us hear that that may not be a driver for her. Money. And she might stubbornly continue with both. I'd just guess {no more} that without deducting herself to alpine full time, we're going to see he doing very well to break into the top ten on the classic hills, and maybe doing better on some of the easier hills....like Lake Louise.
If she goes all in.....wow. All I hear is that she is a "freak of nature" athlete, with the right mental attitude. Exceptionally strong. Could be that her snowboarding experience does bring something extra and special to the table.
So......all alpine soon, or continued split of both?
Thanks!
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That´s what no one, except maybe the family, really knows. Before the Olympics I supposed she´d be racing both in the near future because it was her unique dual career that produced her marketing value: as a SBer, who would know her? As a skier, who would know a girl somewhere between 20th and 30th on WCSL? Like we hardly notice others of such a level, say Edith Miklos. Especially if she´s from a small ex-communist country (10 m inhabitants) with a limited market. (Without her dual carrer she wouldn´t be Atomic´s factory racer, she´d have slower skis and no Coca Cola on her helmet.)
Otoh, both her ski coaches and her agent were hoping for the ski specialization (the guy Valta even told so in December in the Czech media). Judging by my conversation with Tomas Bank, he still hopes so but knows they as coaches simply will have to do what she wants and he seems to be ready to accept that she still wants to race both. Not easy for a coach with no standard periodization, planning and scheduling possible. Still thrilling for both brothers to be part of the miracle. Racing both is also what she´s saying.
Frankly, I don´t know now after the Olympics. The SG gold was something no one could imagine and consider. There are good reasons for both solutions. I still think her value is in racing both, as I mentioned above, that´s what makes her remarkable and interesting. How many people know and remember a 10th lady DHer? Or a 5th? There are 5 top guys good to win and really showing something in the DH classics, but the women´s speed events are not that thrilling. Neither the performances nor the tracks. Sorry. Too many girls injured or not fit after injuries. There´s just one real DH freak – Goggia. (She´s in her own league, Tomas said. When she´s less wild and more stabilized, she´ll be a serial winner.) Lindsey? Not anymore, I´m afraid.
Ester the SB champion & the 8-10th speed skier who could podium is still something remarkable that can be marketed accordingly.
Does money talk? Actually, I don´t know if there is a sponsor offering as much money as to make her quit her SB racing. Skiing is not tennis and not a big sport on really big markets. It would have to be a global partner her agency is looking for, or, maybe, negotiating with these days. Would she jump at it? No idea, I´m not an Ester expert to pretend I have a cue.
She´s not the type of a rags-to-riches-athlete who´d faint at seeing a lot of money for the first time. The Kostelics had their rather limited resources, the Zahrobskys, the Stuhecs had their troubles, as well as Tina Maze but the Ledeckys were relatively well off. I even guess she had/has better budget this season than most of her competitors – at least relatively considering how many people she has around and just at her disposal and doing anything she wants.
And she´s probably still too young to think about a luxury yacht, a Gulfstream, a private island...
We´ll know more after the season.
Otoh, both her ski coaches and her agent were hoping for the ski specialization (the guy Valta even told so in December in the Czech media). Judging by my conversation with Tomas Bank, he still hopes so but knows they as coaches simply will have to do what she wants and he seems to be ready to accept that she still wants to race both. Not easy for a coach with no standard periodization, planning and scheduling possible. Still thrilling for both brothers to be part of the miracle. Racing both is also what she´s saying.
Frankly, I don´t know now after the Olympics. The SG gold was something no one could imagine and consider. There are good reasons for both solutions. I still think her value is in racing both, as I mentioned above, that´s what makes her remarkable and interesting. How many people know and remember a 10th lady DHer? Or a 5th? There are 5 top guys good to win and really showing something in the DH classics, but the women´s speed events are not that thrilling. Neither the performances nor the tracks. Sorry. Too many girls injured or not fit after injuries. There´s just one real DH freak – Goggia. (She´s in her own league, Tomas said. When she´s less wild and more stabilized, she´ll be a serial winner.) Lindsey? Not anymore, I´m afraid.
Ester the SB champion & the 8-10th speed skier who could podium is still something remarkable that can be marketed accordingly.
Does money talk? Actually, I don´t know if there is a sponsor offering as much money as to make her quit her SB racing. Skiing is not tennis and not a big sport on really big markets. It would have to be a global partner her agency is looking for, or, maybe, negotiating with these days. Would she jump at it? No idea, I´m not an Ester expert to pretend I have a cue.
She´s not the type of a rags-to-riches-athlete who´d faint at seeing a lot of money for the first time. The Kostelics had their rather limited resources, the Zahrobskys, the Stuhecs had their troubles, as well as Tina Maze but the Ledeckys were relatively well off. I even guess she had/has better budget this season than most of her competitors – at least relatively considering how many people she has around and just at her disposal and doing anything she wants.
And she´s probably still too young to think about a luxury yacht, a Gulfstream, a private island...
We´ll know more after the season.
Thanks, @checkracer.
In a non-Ester note, I've heard the same about Goggia. As "good" as she has been, coaches pretty close to it mentioned to me that in the next two years, she'll become "really great, really comfortable, and REALLY consistently fast." As in quite likely owing the speed events. And likely scoring real well in GS.
I find Ester's situation to be an interesting one to watch. Great point about her potential maximum attraction being as the dual sport athlete. Guess we'll let her agents do their work, and her coaches make their case to her.
Will be a challenge to schedule, for sure!
In a non-Ester note, I've heard the same about Goggia. As "good" as she has been, coaches pretty close to it mentioned to me that in the next two years, she'll become "really great, really comfortable, and REALLY consistently fast." As in quite likely owing the speed events. And likely scoring real well in GS.
I find Ester's situation to be an interesting one to watch. Great point about her potential maximum attraction being as the dual sport athlete. Guess we'll let her agents do their work, and her coaches make their case to her.
Will be a challenge to schedule, for sure!
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