Alterra acquires Arapahoe Basin.

[Philpug]

Sad but, I am at the point where none of these puchases surprise me.

 

[RachelV]

A-Basin has been incredibly transparent about their current CCC, and has done a very good job limiting pass sales and window tickets to hit their CCC, even on very busy days. Their current CCC is 4140, and is mostly constrained by parking. With very limited exceptions, even if you show up at 10:30 on a busy weekend, you will have a place to park. It might be in the overflow lot and require a shuttle ride, but you'll have a place to park.

The mountain skis ok on their busiest days currently. Full, but fine.

So this line in Alterra's press release worries me:
"He [COO Al] will continue to oversee daily operations as well as leadership of future capital improvement plans, which include expanding parking and snowmaking."

So -- expanded parking seems to lead pretty clearly to a higher CCC, and I don't think it takes too much of an increase there to make the skiing experience not great on the weekends.

A-Basin visits are down a lot post-Epic. Based on Al's blog posts, we also know that they ARE looking to increase visits a bit from where they've landed currently with the Ikon Pass. Not to Epic levels, but a bit.

So, like, I'm not panicking, but I am less than thrilled about this. I do kind of trust A-Basin at this point to not throw the skier experience out the window, and Al staying on board give some optimism that they actually won't. Fingers crossed.

 

[coskigirl]

So, like, I'm not panicking, but I am less than thrilled about this. I do kind of trust A-Basin at this point to not throw the skier experience out the window, and Al staying on board give some optimism that they actually won't. Fingers crossed.

I agree that the fact that Al staying on board is a positive sign. I don't know him personally but my gut says that he wouldn't stay on if he knew of plans that would destroy the Abasin vibe.

 

[Philpug]

I do kind of trust A-Basin at this point to not throw the skier experience out the window, and Al staying on board give some optimism that they actually won't. Fingers crossed.

I agree that the fact that Al staying on board is a positive sign. I don't know him personally but my gut says that he wouldn't stay on if he knew of plans that would destroy the Abasin vibe.

The question is, for how long? Remember how many of us stayed on at Epic.

Their current CCC is 4140, and is mostly constrained by parking.

The one Mothers Day, IIRC, they had a record day with over 5K. People were parking two and three hairpins up the pass and hiking down.

 

[Noodler]

I agree that the fact that Al staying on board is a positive sign. I don't know him personally but my gut says that he wouldn't stay on if he knew of plans that would destroy the Abasin vibe.

I've been part of enough M&A activity in the business world to understand that this is almost always the typical play to keep everyone "calm". There is almost always a change at the top down the line. It's just not going to happen now (and only because that would pose more risk for the recently acquired business). Not saying it's definitely going to happen, and I don't want it to happen, but don't count on Al being around for that long.

 

[RachelV]

Guys stop I'm trying to maintain my chill over here.

 

[coskigirl]

I've been part of enough M&A activity in the business world to understand that this is almost always the typical play to keep everyone "calm". There is almost always a change at the top down the line. It's just not going to happen now (and only because that would pose more risk for the recently acquired business). Not saying it's definitely going to happen, and I don't want it to happen, but don't count on Al being around for that long.

Eh, I've seen it both ways, enough that I'll take the possibly temporary positive sign that he is staying on as a positive and just not get too worked up over what MIGHT happen down the road. I have to do enough dreaming up the worst-case scenarios in my job, skiing is supposed to be a stress reliever for me, and I'll keep it that way.

 

[Mike King]

First they have to pass merger review. Then we will have an idea if the deal is actually going to happen. And what will change.

The acquisition is likely to give A Basin access to more capital. That may make a variety of changes possible. A parking garage might be a useful upgrade. More terrain? Anyone look at the ski area master plan?

Mike

 

[jmeb]

Anyone look at the ski area master plan?

They haven't released a final plan with USFS approval since 2012.

Currently, they are using almost the entirety of their Special Use Permit (SUP) area-- Beavers and Steep Gullies had long been a part of it.

Nothing in Al's snippets from the proposed plan indicate terrain expansion: https://snowbrains.com/arapahoe-bas...er-plan-new-gondola-new-lifts-and-expansions/

 

[COSkier87]

How everything comes around.

Abasin left the Epic pass to avoid crapshows…

Now with full Ikon the crapshows will return, guaranteed…

 

[afski722]

I was originally very upset about this announcement but I think I’ll just take a wait and see approach to see how this plays out.

When you step back, its not surprising that Dream was going to eventually sell A-Basin. Its the nature of their business / industry that I only know the very basic operating fundamentals. Real Estate holding companies buy and sell properties all the time and use the proceeds to fund other investments, etc. Its just like the board game of Monopoly. So we are at the point where there really only 2 (maybe 3) major players engaging the game of ski resort M&A activity currently.

Everyone knows that A-Basin has a unique culture, ski experience, terrain, and overall vibe. Alterra would be dumb to just “blow it all up”. I trust they aren’t that dumb. A-Basin can;t physically change much because of its location on the divide and in the USFS. So no, its not going to be condos, massive lodges, etc. The future potential changes/opportunities are already outlined in their most recent master plan. Parking garages aren't going to happen - I mean you are sitting on the headwaters of the Snake River run right through there.
Proposed Master plan upgrades include expanded parking up by the CDOT garage, a pedestrian bridge over US-6 from the upper lots, a "chondola" up to the bottom of LenX and some expanded beginneer lift /area in the flat part of Wrangler.

Everyone knows parking / parking utilization is the biggest limiting factor the capacity of the mountain. We all saw what happen in later years being on Epic. I hope they don’t try to pull that.

I truly think there is no way can have A-Basin just all out fully unlimited on base Ikon, otherwise you will half of Denver showing up again every weekend or powder day which will result in full parking lots by 7:30am, traffic backups on US-6, cars parking along the highway, etc. A dangerous situation when you have all the tankers and hazmat vehicles flying up and down the pass.

I think the biggest fear and risk is that the A-basin die-hards and Summit County locals lose the “affordable” access they have to A-Basin. There is risk that the current value passes and relatively affordable A-Basin only passes go away. There are also a fair number of Summit County locals who have Epic passes (or employees of Epic Resorts) who also get A-Basin passes or multi-packs particularly for spring skiing. The risk is they can “forced” into buying a more expensive Ikon pass.

We shall see. The mountain is still going to be far too difficult for the average Franger or punter from Texas, it will still remain an expert playground.

I think at the end of the day it will just become a more expensive place to ski and like all other mega-resorts they will raise prices and find ways to extract more revenue from each skier.
At the very least I hope they keep capacity in check and don't hold us hostage to ski A-Basin if we don't want to go full-Icon.

 

[Heiusa]

But they manage them and that could be considered by any regulatory body looking to stop this.

Altera does not manage Copper, Copper is owned and operated by Powdr, Copper is a parntner resort on the Ikon pass.

 

[Tex]

What’s the fuss about? Higher prices or bigger crowds? Those factors off set it each other. Theoretically, this would lower operating cost.

 

[Itinerant skier]

Altera does not manage Copper, Copper is owned and operated by Powdr, Copper is a parntner resort on the Ikon pass.

True, but it's Ikon unlimited. That makes an Ikon pass a de facto Copper season pass.

 

[crosscountry]

I think the biggest fear and risk is that the A-basin die-hards and Summit County locals lose the “affordable” access they have to A-Basin. There is risk that the current value passes and relatively affordable A-Basin only passes go away. There are also a fair number of Summit County locals who have Epic passes (or employees of Epic Resorts) who also get A-Basin passes or multi-packs particularly for spring skiing. The risk is they can “forced” into buying a more expensive Ikon pass.

If Steven's is a guide, the a-basin only pass will go up in price.

If Ikon remains limited at AB, it's not going to affect the diehards. They're the ones who bought A-basin only pass.

 

[Vestirse]

If they are planning to go the Crystal route (also owned by Alterra):

- Ikon only, 7 days
- Parking free to passholders, but reservations required on weekends. $20 for everyone else with reservations on weekends
- Unlimited resort pass will be $$$ but include full Ikon

 

[UGASkiDawg]

If they are planning to go the Crystal route (also owned by Alterra):

- Ikon only, 7 days
- Parking free to passholders, but reservations required on weekends. $20 for everyone else with reservations on weekends
- Unlimited resort pass will be $$$ but include full Ikon

This is what I would bet as well but we'll see

 

[blackke17]

Ruined Solitude . why not another cool place
($35 parking / unlimited IKON)

 

[PlainsSkier]

If they are planning to go the Crystal route (also owned by Alterra):

- Ikon only, 7 days
- Parking free to passholders, but reservations required on weekends. $20 for everyone else with reservations on weekends
- Unlimited resort pass will be $$$ but include full Ikon

Not sure I see them offering an expensive season pass when you can get cheap passes to WP, Copper, Loveland, Keystone and Breck. Way more local competition than Crystal has. I could see Abasin being more like Steamboat.

 

[mikel]

True, but it's Ikon unlimited. That makes an Ikon pass a de facto Copper season pass.

Exactly! Posts above talk about how Alterra has limits at some locations yet Copper, a Powdr resort, has unlimited Ikon access. And some people wonder why it can be so crowded at times