A question of balance... and close fitting ski boots

[CalG]

I've been paying attention to my feet a bit more this year. 50 hours a week in ski boots will shift one's attention that way.

With close fitting "down sized and fitted" boots, I find the phalanges (toes) are getting the short end of the deal. They just don't get the room they might desire. ( My foot is quite low volume in the heel and body, with a high arch, but the fore foot and toes spread. for those who need such info ;-) )

The question is, With balance being so KEY in all aspects of performance skiing, what compromise is made when the toes are not able to splay and provide the minute inputs and feed back significant to "enhanced balance and performance".

NB
All my boot experience proves that "toe box" volume only increases with use. Liners packing out is what I look forward to. Rather than a signal that it's time for new boots, packed out liners are the sign that the boots now fit! Some times that takes more than a full season.

 

[François Pugh]

Sometimes what it takes is a boot punch and a little work on the liners.

 

[CalG]

Sometimes what it takes is a boot punch and a little work on the liners.

You missed the question entirely

 

[François Pugh]

Let me rephrase. You need to have your toes more spread out than squished together. It does affect balance. Contrary to popular superstition, sometimes waiting for them to pack out is not enough.

 

[raytseng]

The sometimes it takes a full season is the wtf part people are responding too, esp if you are saying you are putting in 50hrs per week so your season is like 10seasons for the weekend warrior.

That is like a car where you have to break it in for 120,000 miles before you can drive it properly.

So your premise that you need a whole season to reach the steadystate packed out comfortable state is only your fringe view. Just about everyone else doesnt do this and most get comfortable in say 10 ski days or less. If its not comfortable in 10 days, usually they go to the bootfitter to help speed the process

Basically you are Andy Dusfrene in Shawshank using a rockhammer (your toes lateral rubbing)for 10years to dig through the wall even though you aren't in jail and other tools exist.

 

[CalG]

The sometimes it takes a full season is the wtf part people are responding too, esp if you are saying you are putting in 50hrs per week so your season is like 10seasons for the weekend warrior.

That is like a car where you have to break it in for 120,000 miles before you can drive it properly.

So your premise that you need a whole season to reach the steadystate packed out comfortable state is only your fringe view. Just about everyone else doesnt do this and most get comfortable in say 10 ski days or less. If its not comfortable in 10 days, usually they go to the bootfitter to help speed the process

Basically you are Andy Dusfrene in Shawshank using a rockhammer (your toes lateral rubbing)for 10years to dig through the wall even though you aren't in jail and other tools exist.

Basically, You have missed the question. I only give my personals, because "people ask". I even high lighted that in the OP.

Now to the question. Why are the toe boxes in ski boots not more generous, in light of the fact that fine balance and motor control is part of skiing, and so much involved with the toes of the foot.

 

[BGreen]

Boots need to fit. IMO the concept that boots need to fit tightly is a myth. If she shell is constricting your foot, it is negatively affecting your balance, If you put your foot in the shell (along with your insoles, whether custom or stock) and skin touches plastic anywhere, they are too tight and that area needs to be ground or punched. It takes surprisingly little contact to cause problems. Personally, I don’t understand how you can spend 50 hours a week in boots with tight toes. That sounds unpleasant. For what it’s worth, I actually have more toe room in my racey boots than my coachy boots.

 

[Rod9301]

There is no need whatsoever for your tires to be squished.

There are a whole lot of boot fitters that believe otherwise.
They see wrong.

 

[CalG]

There is no need whatsoever for your tires to be squished.

There are a whole lot of boot fitters that believe otherwise.
They see wrong.

Hmmm...

This response is the question....

Hmmm....

 

[n black]

Boots need to fit. IMO the concept that boots need to fit tightly is a myth. ... For what it’s worth, I actually have more toe room in my racey boots than my coachy boots.

I totally agree.

 

[raytseng]

If that is the question well that's like many other establishment experts who will not compromise 1% of the ideal even if it causes their client 500hours of pain.
You can make parallels to many other experts in their specific field also live in ivory towers and or because they are willing to endure or they did it, they think everyone else should too, even if newer techniques or superior options exist.

 

[CalG]

If that is the question well that's like many other establishment experts who will not compromise 1% of the ideal even if it causes their client 500hours of pain.
You can make parallels to many other experts in their specific field also live in ivory towers and or because they are willing to endure or they did it, they think everyone else should too, even if newer techniques or superior options exist.

Did you just say that ski boots should include more generous toe volume?

 

[Ken_R]

I've been paying attention to my feet a bit more this year. 50 hours a week in ski boots will shift one's attention that way.

With close fitting "down sized and fitted" boots, I find the phalanges (toes) are getting the short end of the deal. They just don't get the room they might desire. ( My foot is quite low volume in the heel and body, with a high arch, but the fore foot and toes spread. for those who need such info ;-) )

The question is, With balance being so KEY in all aspects of performance skiing, what compromise is made when the toes are not able to splay and provide the minute inputs and feed back significant to "enhanced balance and performance".

NB
All my boot experience proves that "toe box" volume only increases with use. Liners packing out is what I look forward to. Rather than a signal that it's time for new boots, packed out liners are the sign that the boots now fit! Some times that takes more than a full season.

I like my forefoot to have enough space in the boot to be able to "expand" as I put pressure on it and the toes to have a bit of wiggle room all while the rear foot is held in place and the instep holds the foot down.

But man, 50 hours a week!? I would weight in other important factors like comfort, warmth and walkability.

 

[raytseng]

Did you just say that ski boots should include more generous toe volume?

Im saying there are plenty of boots that have plenty of toe volume. Additionally thermo fit liners or fisher vacuum with the correct toe prep can fit the volume you need.

 

[François Pugh]

Boots come narrow because it's easy to punch out the toe, but not so easy to punch it in. A wide toe area in a boot shell is going to cause boot-out at a lower angle, so they make the boot only as wide as a person with a narrow forefoot needs it, while still being wide enough to punch out for a wide forefoot person. With liners, custom foam liners are made with a toe-cap covering your toes, so that your toes don't end up being squished. And boot fitters expected to do work on liners when making a tight fit race boot (even custom foamed ones).

However, because so many people complain when they have a mild discomfort in a new boot that doesn't fit like their three year old sneakers, boot fitters automatically translate "these boots are painful" to they'll be fine after a few hours. If you are a stoic and mean "these boots will cripple me if I wear them for a few hours" you are unlucky.
It's just like when a skier tells the ski shop owner, "I'm an expert skier, but I don't know what ski to buy" they start showing him the beginner-intermediate skis.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Cal, do you wish to solve the problem YOU have for YOURSELF or are you looking for a general answer to why SOME boots lack toe space? I have a fairly wide forefoot with a narrow heel and thickened Achilles tendons (both have been repaired after ruptures), along with extremely flat feet. I've had the best results from custom footbeds in foamed boots. I am very foot conscious in my skiing.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I have found that Zipfit liners solve this issue. The front half of the liner is so soft and flexible my toes can be comfortable. There was plenty of room for my toes in my shells with the stock liners, however they were too constricting to let my toes move. Even after the bootfitter expanded the toebox on the stock liner. OP might want to check some out.

And I am in LV shells that are still tight everywhere else.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....Why are the toe boxes in ski boots not more generous, in light of the fact that fine balance and motor control is part of skiing, and so much involved with the toes of the foot. ....With balance being so KEY in all aspects of performance skiing, what compromise is made when the toes are not able to splay and provide the minute inputs and feed back significant to "enhanced balance and performance".

I feel your pain. I don't know why they make the lasts have pointy toe boxes. You are correct, the toes need to have enough room to breathe. But your foot is not bending at the ball-of-foot, so the toes do not need to splay out to provide balance as the do when we walk and run.

My toes take up more width than my ball-of-foot, and my ankle, heel, mid-foot, and lower leg are extremely narrow. Perhaps your feet are like this as well. The boot needs to be snug in all those places, except the toe area (in front of the ball-of-foot; that needs to be quite snug). I have found no boot made for a foot with this shape. And I've looked.

My two-seasons-ago new boots were tight in the toes. My big toes were especially squished. I was told this was normal by the fitter (highly regarded) who sold me the boots. I skied in those boots for one whole season, and got very inflamed ingrown toenails in both big toes as a result. I had to have those toenails surgically fixed (ouch) the next summer, then had to buy another pair of new boots (two pair in two seasons).

My NEW bootfitter, not the guy who put me in the other boots, found a boot that fit everything but my toes, then he widened the toe box. This took several visits. I now have boots that fit, for the first time in my skiing life.

My advice ... visit a good bootfitter and have the toeboxes widened. Don't wait, so your toes won't get inflamed. You'll need to find a bootfitter who has purchased the equipment that will widen that part of a boot, and this fitter needs to have done this often. Go to a shop that caters to race kids; you'll most likely find a good bootfitter there. Best of luck. This is important.

 

[Slim]

I can’t find the page right now, but there is a ski technique/ bootfitting guy on the web whomade the exact point you are, namely that feet/toes need to be able to spread out for proper biomechanics, especially control of the ski.

 

[LiquidFeet]

There are fitters who believe the midfoot needs to spread and pronate inside ski boots with a soft-ISH footbed.
There are those who don't.
Then there's the issue of which part of the foot (toes? arch/midfoot? or eversion/inversion at the ankle?) is supposed to spread or collapse or bend or flex or whatever.

Feet are different. Some are hypermobile, and some are rigid.
A bootfitter can take an ideological approach, or can customize the approach depending on foot anatomy.

Or just go ski and fugeddaboudit until problems arise.