4Runner Replacement/New Ride

[Chip]

I'm not gonna claim to be super well-informed, but I have a strong 4Runner bias. It's sad that I can't say it's the best option for your needs at this point.

Yeah, the reliability and high resale value of the 4Runner can be a huge problem, especially if you don't have one anymore. I have a 2004 (got it in 2017), the current 2023 model is essentially the same thing, with a few dashboard upgrades.

I inherited a 2016 highlander in 2020, and had to choose which one to keep- kept the 4R, sold the Highlander disgustingly cheap during the depths of the C-19 lockdown. The highlander is a great ride, but more like a tall station wagon, not a real off-road SUV. Might be fine for most, most folks don't actually drive on nasty un-maintained 2-tracks and don't really need the capability of the 4Runner.

Jeep, VW, Hyundai, other brands all count on the "shiny new gadget" impulse buyers that forget about the value of long-term reliability when they are talking to the slick salesperson in the showroom. When I bought my 1999 4R in 2002 with 50k miles, a co-worker commented that I could have gotten a brand-new Chevy Blazer for the same price. Why yes, I certainly could have.... My '04 ain't too shiny anymore, Colorado's sun and hail have given it a beating. Not as severe as the financial beating of attempting to buy a new vehicle in the current economic environment.

My wife would still be fine with the 4Runner. We are looking at some of the "shiny new gadget" vehicles (love that term) right now as well. We have never really used either 4Runner for what it is designed for. Just maybe some 4 wheeling in the snow- or a little off roading to get to a trail head. But that's it- well tow my race car as well. But the big difference to me in the used car market is I can buy a 4Runner with 60k miles on it and get north of 200k miles without even thinking about it. Not many SUVs will do that (IMHO). So I'm considering new for some of these SUVs.
So my search will continue- and I will look at many options. I do like your description of the Highlander- being a tall station wagon. My wife thinks it looks like a mini van. I disagree- the Honda Pilot looks like a mini van for sure.

 

[coskigirl]

My wife thinks it looks like a mini van. I disagree- the Honda Pilot looks like a mini van for sure.

Wow, that’s not something I would ever think for the Highlander.

 

[Chip]

Wow, that’s not something I would ever think for the Highlander.

I know- right! I really like the look of the current Highlander, and it's one of my top choices.

My one concern is that I have an old Thule box that I'm not sure how it will fit or if it will fit. It uses the old style square cross bars.

You have the hybrid? What year is yours? Are the cross bars adjustable? I'm sure that Thule makes something that will work on the old box.

 

[nay]

Take a look at the Subaru Ascent, Touring edition. It has a gorgeous interior, you really can’t believe it’s a Subaru, and all it takes is a good set of 18” wheels to bring it into luxury looks. You get all the goodies many of which are now indispensable: ventilated seats, auto windshield wipers, auto high beams, headlights that turn into corners, excellent adaptive cruiser control, killer sound system, the best AWD on the market.

The only knock I have is the suspension is fairly soft, although not everything needs to be a sports car and Eibach makes some very low lift heavier duty springs for it. The factory tow hitch is hidden and integrates with the subframe - I’d have no hesitation towing occasionally at 5,000 lbs but it will gulp premium if you do it.

The new breed of turbo 4 engines are exceptional - they drive like big V8s and have no loss of power at altitude due to the turbo compression compensation. I’ve towed a 2K trailer over Monarch Pass at 11,000 ft with some higher grades and the engine isn’t even breathing. 26 mpg just touring out at highway speeds and CVT works really well for driving passes as it just keeps the turbo in band. Roof rack and rails are heavy duty, Sube expects you to have a rooftop box and there is nothing to upgrade.

Boring…but then all of this stuff is boring. They are just big cars. For hauling and loading and people…a second gen Sequoia can’t be beat. You can’t kill the engine and they are way overbuilt, miles don’t really matter. That’s the proper upgrade for a 4Runner.

 

[Chip]

@nay- a coworker of mine has one of these and it's very nice- he hasn't had it that long (less than a year), but nothing but good things to say. Will be looking into these as well.

 

[Tom K.]

Towing Curmudgeon here, but I wouldn't even consider towing a race car, or similar 4,000 pound+ item, with any of the CUVs mentioned in this thread "rated" for 5,000 pounds.

To safely tow 5,000 pounds, you need a minimum of 500 pounds tongue weight. Open the hatch of just about any CUV and put that much weight on the bumper. You won't like what you see.

Modestly sized vehicles that have some real towing chops are the 4Runner, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, and the aging-but-still-surprisingly-relevant Durango.

European tow ratings are meaningless on 80 mph interstate highways.

 

[snwbrdr]

I know- right! I really like the look of the current Highlander, and it's one of my top choices.

My one concern is that I have an old Thule box that I'm not sure how it will fit or if it will fit. It uses the old style square cross bars.

You have the hybrid? What year is yours? Are the cross bars adjustable? I'm sure that Thule makes something that will work on the old box.

Cross bars are fixed position. We have pre-2022 HiHy's. The giveaway is the side hybrid badges. Toyota got rid of them starting 2022. Though I got rid of all of my hybrid badges so my car doesn't scream "steal my catalytic converter".

the old Thule compatibility, it depends on the mounting mechanism of the box. If it's new enough, with the jaws mount, it's a universal mount.

 

[coskigirl]

I know- right! I really like the look of the current Highlander, and it's one of my top choices.

My one concern is that I have an old Thule box that I'm not sure how it will fit or if it will fit. It uses the old style square cross bars.

You have the hybrid? What year is yours? Are the cross bars adjustable? I'm sure that Thule makes something that will work on the old box.

Mine is a 2021 Hybrid Limited. I don't believe the cross bars are adjustable but I've never looked at it really. I adore my Inno box though because it is so simple to put on and take off. Except for the actual placing of the box on or lifting off, I can do everything by myself in about 3 minutes. I’d say the towing capacity and limits on off roading are really my only complaints. My lease is up in February and not sure what I’ll do next. I really want a hybrid 4Runner but those have been delayed so who knows.

 

[Crank]

I have an 07 Highlander and my friend gave me his long Thule box last season because his, new to him, 15 Highlander bars would were not forward enough on the roof to accommodate the box.

BTW. For me the Highlander is the ideal ski car, Big enough without being a behemoth and a nice smooth, comfy highway ride. No issues with driving to and through the hills on storms. Next car will likely be a hybrid Highlander.

 

[Chip]

Cross bars are fixed position. We have pre-2022 HiHy's. The giveaway is the side hybrid badges. Toyota got rid of them starting 2022. Though I got rid of all of my hybrid badges so my car doesn't scream "steal my catalytic converter".

the old Thule compatibility, it depends on the mounting mechanism of the box. If it's new enough, with the jaws mount, it's a universal mount.

Mine are the old style and not the jaws mount. I need to look into if they can be retrofitted to the new style or not. I'm thinking- NOPE. But I can get crossbars specific to most cars that will work. So not all is lost.

 

[my07mcx2]

Towing Curmudgeon here, but I wouldn't even consider towing a race car, or similar 4,000 pound+ item, with any of the CUVs mentioned in this thread "rated" for 5,000 pounds.

To safely tow 5,000 pounds, you need a minimum of 500 pounds tongue weight. Open the hatch of just about any CUV and put that much weight on the bumper. You won't like what you see.

Modestly sized vehicles that have some real towing chops are the 4Runner, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, and the aging-but-still-surprisingly-relevant Durango.

European tow ratings are meaningless on 80 mph interstate highways.

curious why you say euro tow rating are meaningless at 80? I have towed our Mastercraft on the interstate numbers times at 80 plus. trailer tires I would get more worried about. the brakes on my Q7 are way bigger than any 1/2 ton truck

 

[Tom K.]

curious why you say euro tow rating are meaningless at 80? I have towed our Mastercraft on the interstate numbers times at 80 plus. trailer tires I would get more worried about. the brakes on my Q7 are way bigger than any 1/2 ton truck

I think poor writing clarity on my part. I meant that the tow ratings provided by mfgs on vehicles sold in Europe a not very valid here. They always seem crazy high.

In any event, I agree wholeheartedly about your Q7 being a great tow vehicle, though I may be prejudiced, because I love that rig in general, and an SQ7 would have been at the top of my recent purchase list, if only our new location didn't happen to be 3 hours or more from the nearest Audi dealer.

I'll check in later, and try to write an even longer sentence than that last one......

 

[nay]

Towing Curmudgeon here, but I wouldn't even consider towing a race car, or similar 4,000 pound+ item, with any of the CUVs mentioned in this thread "rated" for 5,000 pounds.

To safely tow 5,000 pounds, you need a minimum of 500 pounds tongue weight. Open the hatch of just about any CUV and put that much weight on the bumper. You won't like what you see.

Modestly sized vehicles that have some real towing chops are the 4Runner, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, and the aging-but-still-surprisingly-relevant Durango.

European tow ratings are meaningless on 80 mph interstate highways.

I don’t know that I’d consider a 4Runner a better tow vehicle given it is underpowered (current models) - I’d probably think of the transmission as much as anything else. Higher than expected load ratings can be realized with the hitch is integrated into the frame (or subframe on a car) - it is just bolted on as an accessory or it is integrated into the frame? A fully integrated hitch will be recessed behind the bumper with tongue weight closer to the rear axle then will be a bolt on hitch.

Anyway, here’s the Ascent - this is accessed by removing a bumper panel. This is an $800 Subaru accessory and here is what Subaru says about it (pics from my Ascent). I might like those upgraded Eibach springs - I’d note that at least for a 5x10 Uhaul trailer loaded you don’t even know it’s back there. That’s not 5,000 lbs though.

 

[Dwight]

@my07mcx2 I like this idea- what kind of longevity do these SUVs get? I like to get about 8 years from a car and typically put about 20k/year on them. Taking a quick look and considering my price range- could get into a 2 year old vehicle that has about 40k-50k miles already. So would these go to 200k?

I was going to recommend this but find the older Diesel. I have 2013 Q7 diesel.

 

[Dwight]

Wow, that’s not something I would ever think for the Highlander.

Because the Pilot was on the Odyssey chassis and feels exactly like the Odyssey. Now the 2024(?) was supposed to be a new design.

 

[nay]

If looking at Highlander…I’d be looking at the Grand Highlander because of the amount of cargo room and seating for >5. Car and Driver just put out a comparison test of what they consider the top 5 models to be, which included the Pilot, Grand Cherokee, Telluride, (Mazda) CX-9, and the Grand Highlander. The Telluride has been winning every comparison test handily since it was introduced, but C&D placed the CX-9 first (they always love Mazdas as a “driver’s car”) and the Grand Highlander second with the Telluride third.

The most interesting part of that review was that C&D thought the new hybrid turbo 4 cyl powertrain was the first they have driven that “fulfills the promise of hybrid engines”. And here is the sizzle: that motor takes a huge Grand Highlander from 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and is a full second faster than the turbo inline six in the CX-9. Read that last part again - a turbo inline six is a driver’s motor in a performance car. C&D referred to the Grand Highlander as ”an ass haulin family hauler” and only dinged it for being off in some interior design elements.

People are still talking about “4 banger” and whatnot but we are past the age of “there is no substitute for displacement” and into the age of “you should always reduce displacement and force induction”. Big ole V8 engines feel like big ole V8 engines. They are fun when you get on them and nothing sounds like a V8, but they are enormous paper weights unless you are towing really big toys. That 5.5 0-60 was accompanied by 25 mpg in real world driving in a 5,000 lb vehicle.

And again, naturally aspirated engines suck wind at high altitude. I have a 5.7L V8 Sequoia that makes 401 lb/ft of torque, but I’m slapping off overdrive running up passes and have to stay on it because that motor has lost 1/3 of its power at 11,000 feet. The 270 lb/ft the Ascent makes is still 270 lb/ft up high and the torque curve is flat - it’s computer managed to not blow up the drivetrain components as it could clearly put out a lot more power. The car mags don’t much care for the Ascent because they always test the Premium edition since that is Subaru’s “value” slot, but for $48K MSRP I had a top of the line Touring and that’s still below the prices of other stuff they test.

In any case, the 400 lb/ft of the new Toyota hybrid motor is going to smoke the old V8. People are all over the internet talking about how they will go ahead and keep their V8s because it’s such a shame that the new motor is a 4 cyl, even though it will outperform it at twice the fuel economy for anything other than pure grunt towing.

I know that not everybody here drives at high altitude on steep grades, but if you do I would not be considering anything that isn’t turbo unless you enjoy working harder to drive to skiing.

 

[scott43]

I mean, it was glorious spinning the 4.7L V8 in my rental Nissan Armada over the Vail pass... But how long do you want to run at 4500rpm making 125hp??? Turbos are a longevity question mark perhaps but no denying they are great.

 

[nay]

I mean, it was glorious spinning the 4.7L V8 in my rental Nissan Armada over the Vail pass... But how long do you want to run at 4500rpm making 125hp??? Turbos are a longevity question mark perhaps but no denying they are great.

I think we are out of the era of 30 year vehicle lifespan just because cars are so much about technology now. My wife loves our 2008 Sequoia, which is a real world tank, and I asked her if she wanted one because this has come up locally for $26K. Her response: “I am not going back in time, nothing before 2021” - that’s our Ascent model year.

I told her about the new Land Cruiser, because she really loves trucks and she asked “is it bougie?”. Car makers got really good around 2016-2018 to add all kinds of useful features and get rid of stuff we hate. You never know how annoying managing high beams on a dark backcountry road are until you have auto high beams (and headlights that follow the turn of the steering wheel). You know how annoying interval windshield wipers are in spitting mist and other conditions, and when they just run exactly as needed at any interval it’s really hard to go back. Ventilated seats? Way more important than heated seats.

I test drove the Ascent on a hot day, thought I’d been out for about 20 minutes, it was a hour. That’s a reason to buy something. Anyway, I bought the 8 year 130K mile gold warranty upgrade on the Ascent for exactly this reason - the car is a computer, let the manufacturer deal with that.

 

[noobski]

I used to have a 2003 4Runner. Loved it. Missed it a lot. Probably my favorite vehicle ever.

I was going to buy a 2022 or 2023 4Runner late last year, but after a lot of searching and comparison, I bought a gently used 22 Lexus GX460 and frankly, there's no comparison. the GX is all around a better truck plus 8 cylinder. It is simply awesome if you like 4Runner style driving.

Lexus 2024 GX is rebooted now with a 6 and I would simply not want to buy that for a while - too new to know how it will play out. The 2023 and older are the V8 in the GX is one of the most reliable engines ever built.

Finally, depending on budget, hard to find at $40k but if you could, try to get newer because they updated the tech package. But pre 2022 are pretty awesome too, just crummy smart screen and may be able to find at about $40k. Carvana showing $43k on 2021s

 

[Tom K.]

They are fun when you get on them and nothing sounds like a V8, but they are enormous paper weights unless you are towing really big toys.

Having done no research whatsoever I"m going to go out on a limb here and claim that an NA V8 probably doesn't weigh any more than the new turbo 4 hybrid in the new Grand Highlander.

Don't get me wrong, I love me a turbo, but I'll take mine with 6 cylinders and RWD architecture for towing every time.