The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[LindseyB]

My experience as well. 1cm forward on '19 AXs. Unrelated to my skiing stance.

The 19 AX mount point is farther back than previous. Move forward and they wake up for skiers that dont create as much pressure.

(I.E. body weight, cuff angle, or skill set.)

 

[Jean-Benoit]

The 19 AX mount point is farther back than previous. Move forward and they wake up for skiers that dont create as much pressure.

(I.E. body weight, cuff angle, or skill set.)

Body weight: 200lbs - check
Cuff angle: 15 deg. - check
Skill set: what specifically do you mean by 'creating pressure'? Pressuring the shovels/tips of the skis through forward pressure on boot cuffs? or, creating pressure on the whole ski with a neutral stance but higher edge angles? Something else? I want to work on it! Thanks.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I see a lot of talk here about moving Stockli mounts forward. I demoed the new AX extensively before I bought specifically because of mount point discussion here multiple times. I also moved around the two pair I have with plates. As has been the case for all my Stocklis, they work great for me and are optimized right on the line. Fine if your mileage varies, preference is enough, but to say universally they should be moved forward is just plain incorrect. One might look at it from a logic perspective. Stockli builds some say the best consumer skis in the world but somehow they couldn't get the mount points right for anybody? Hmmm...

 

[Noodler]

I see a lot of talk here about moving Stockli mounts forward. I demoed the new AX extensively before I bought specifically because of mount point discussion here multiple times. I also moved around the two pair I have with plates. As has been the case for all my Stocklis, they work great for me and are optimized right on the line. Fine if your mileage varies, preference is enough, but to say universally they should be moved forward is just plain incorrect. One might look at it from a logic perspective. Stockli builds some say the best consumer skis in the world but somehow they couldn't get the mount points right for anybody? Hmmm...

I think you may have taken the advice as being "all skiers" (universal) when in reality it's "most skiers". Mount point preference is specific to the particular skier. What every skier should know is that there is no one universal mount point on any ski that will work optimally for everyone. Andectol evidence is that Stockli's mount points are generally more rearward than most skiers will benefit from, hence the recommendation to experiment with a more forward mount point.

 

[LindseyB]

I also just got some '19 Laser AXs. My experience mirrors yours : I can't see them being quite that easy for intermediates (or as easy as the previous version was, by some accounts). If they have a decent skiing stance, they'll certainly be able to ski them, but maybe not use that somewhat stiffer tail and access the sweet extra gear. Still working on it myself.

The 19 AX is farther back than previous AX mount points.

I suggest moving it forward depending on how much pressure a skier applies. I.E Weight, height, forward boot lean, skill set.

 

[LindseyB]

I also just got some '19 Laser AXs. My experience mirrors yours : I can't see them being quite that easy for intermediates (or as easy as the previous version was, by some accounts). If they have a decent skiing stance, they'll certainly be able to ski them, but maybe not use that somewhat stiffer tail and access the sweet extra gear. Still working on it myself.

The 19 AX is farther back than previous AX mount points.

I suggest moving it forward depending on how much pressure a skier applies. I.E Weight, height, forward cuff lean, skill set.

 

[cosmoliu]

My first Stockli skis (1 1/2 seasons ago) were the AXs. Because of the forward mount conventional wisdom, I had Attack 13 demos mounted. I played with position for the first couple of days and then settled on 1 cm forward. But frankly, I didn't discern a major difference. My second pair (last spring) are SR 97s, which I had standard Attack 13s mounted on the line. I took them everywhere I could at Jackson Hole in early Dec. and I'm very happy with them at that position. My third pair, SR88s was bought last month (got a screaming deal at JH). I also had Attack 13s mounted on the line because, frankly, I didn't remember that I might want/need adjust-ability. The AXs and the SR 97s were love at first ride. I feel like I'm still courting the SR88s, which spank me every time I get in the back seat. I'm still not comfortable enough on them to take them into sketchy terrain. The thought has crept in a couple of times that I might want a more forward position, but my binding holes are already the second set in those skis. It's looking like I should suck it up and learn to stay out of the back seat.

 

[Jean-Benoit]

The 19 AX is farther back than previous AX mount points.

I suggest moving it forward depending on how much pressure a skier applies. I.E Weight, height, forward cuff lean, skill set.

Hi again @LindseyB... It seems you've replied to me three times the same thing (or almost), without seeing my answer - and question - to your first reply. Have a look above.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I think you may have taken the advice as being "all skiers" (universal) when in reality it's "most skiers". Mount point preference is specific to the particular skier. What every skier should know is that there is no one universal mount point on any ski that will work optimally for everyone. Andectol evidence is that Stockli's mount points are generally more rearward than most skiers will benefit from, hence the recommendation to experiment with a more forward mount point.

No, I didn't take a suggestion for most skiers as blanket, I was addressing actual blanket conclusions/recommendations that have been made. In my comment I said preference is fine as a determinant. That said, while besides the point, I don't know how one gets to "most skiers". My Stockli cadre all ski them on the line, though they are mostly racers, but I wouldn't cite that to say everyone should have all Stocklis on the line.

 

[Jean-Benoit]

I think you may have taken the advice as being "all skiers" (universal) when in reality it's "most skiers". Mount point preference is specific to the particular skier. What every skier should know is that there is no one universal mount point on any ski that will work optimally for everyone. Andectol evidence is that Stockli's mount points are generally more rearward than most skiers will benefit from, hence the recommendation to experiment with a more forward mount point.

Good point, as it applies to all skis. But as it pertains to Stockli specifically, the question still seems sensible: why would they suggest a mount point that doesn't benefit most skiers? If indeed it doesn't...
Here's a theory, just to bring human psychology back into the equation. Guy/girl buys Laser AX, comes to read forums where two or three people report that mounting bindings forward is better. Soon enough, any number of readers and Stockli owners try it. Those who do see a difference report back enthusiastically, strengthening the positive feedback loop; those who DON'T see a difference - or improvement anyway - move the bindings back to the standard mount point and don't bother to report back. Then, there's the always very real possibility of confirmation bias. You implicitly trust the feedback and comments from a few posters here; if they state that something works, you're already prepared to feel a positive difference - and so, once on the snow, you do. Conditioning.
So this "anecdotal evidence" might well be biased in a few subtle ways, and in reality, there could be many more skiers very happy with the recommended mount point - and Stockli, in the end, might just know what they're doing.
But yeah, definitely just a theory - I'm really quite new to all this.

 

[oldfashoned]

My first Stockli skis (1 1/2 seasons ago) were the AXs. Because of the forward mount conventional wisdom, I had Attack 13 demos mounted. I played with position for the first couple of days and then settled on 1 cm forward. But frankly, I didn't discern a major difference. My second pair (last spring) are SR 97s, which I had standard Attack 13s mounted on the line. I took them everywhere I could at Jackson Hole in early Dec. and I'm very happy with them at that position. My third pair, SR88s was bought last month (got a screaming deal at JH). I also had Attack 13s mounted on the line because, frankly, I didn't remember that I might want/need adjust-ability. The AXs and the SR 97s were love at first ride. I feel like I'm still courting the SR88s, which spank me every time I get in the back seat. I'm still not comfortable enough on them to take them into sketchy terrain. The thought has crept in a couple of times that I might want a more forward position, but my binding holes are already the second set in those skis. It's looking like I should suck it up and learn to stay out of the back seat.

Interesting. After the first 2 hours on my (then) new SR88 I was more confident in taking them on challenging terrain then my previous skis I was on for 2 season. YMMV I suppose. They the easiest ski I have been on. The balsa ones. Mounted on the line.

 

[cosmoliu]

Interesting. After the first 2 hours on my (then) new SR88 I was more confident in taking them on challenging terrain then my previous skis I was on for 2 season. YMMV I suppose. They the easiest ski I have been on. The balsa ones. Mounted on the line.

I believe mine are also the balsa ones. 2017-18 model, anyway. Which is fine by me since I weigh 140# sopping wet.

No, I'm sure it's the driver, not the skis or the mount point. I'm blaming early season bad habits. Actually, my first day on them was in new-ish snow at JH, boot top deep in places. I liked them just fine then. And the day before, when that snow was freshly fallen, the SR97s were just stupendous. My <<minor>> problems on them were in bumplets at Snowbird a couple of weeks ago, in crud snow. Maybe for the skiing I do, the SR97s are just more to my liking. I'll get it figured out. If not, there might be a cheap pair of SR88s in 168 up for sale in the spring.

 

[oldfashoned]

I believe mine are also the balsa ones. 2017-18 model, anyway. Which is fine by me since I weigh 140# sopping wet.

No, I'm sure it's the driver, not the skis or the mount point. I'm blaming early season bad habits. Actually, my first day on them was in new-ish snow at JH, boot top deep in places. I liked them just fine then. And the day before, when that snow was freshly fallen, the SR97s were just stupendous. My <<minor>> problems on them were in bumplets at Snowbird a couple of weeks ago, in crud snow. Maybe for the skiing I do, the SR97s are just more to my liking. I'll get it figured out. If not, there might be a cheap pair of SR88s in 168 up for sale in the spring.

I experience the same thing: in crud snow they are challenging. Im finding I have to put all my weight in turning in that stuff. I’m 150# after the enchilada plate! Mine are the 177s.

 

[cosmoliu]

Then maybe I'm expecting more from the SR88s in crud than they can deliver, particularly when compared back to back with the SR 97s. I will say that trying to figure this out is pretty good clean fun.

 

[Started at 53]

The 19 AX mount point is farther back than previous. Move forward and they wake up for skiers that dont create as much pressure.

(I.E. body weight, cuff angle, or skill set.)

Hmmm, very interesting coming from a Stockli Rep! I am reading between the lines and seeing a suggestion to move them forward if you are a back seat skier but in a much more politically correct manner than I would use.

I am pretty sure I (although I am a noob) sugggested moving forward helps to mask backseat skiing a couple of pages ago.

I am an overly analytical guy, and I know from golf that a company of Stockli quality is not going to put the line in the wrong place.


Thanks Lindsey

 

[James]

I am an overly analytical guy, and I know from golf that a company of Stockli quality is not going to put the line in the wrong place.

It's not really analytical to base something on a hunch. You keep using "wrong".
Here, go to this page and read the binding studies. In general it's old but not much has changed in how mount points are determined. The Campbell Balancer has pretty much disappeared. Some free ride skis now have a range of lines to mount to instead of 1 line.

http://lous.ca/tech-articles/
Maybe call Lou up and talk to him. He's also a Stockli dealer.

 

[Freddo Bumps]

Lou’s a great guy to speak with. Super knowledgeable and thoughtful.

 

[Started at 53]

It's not really analytical to base something on a hunch. You keep using "wrong".
Here, go to this page and read the binding studies. In general it's old but not much has changed in how mount points are determined. The Campbell Balancer has pretty much disappeared. Some free ride skis now have a range of lines to mount to instead of 1 line.

http://lous.ca/tech-articles/
Maybe call Lou up and talk to him. He's also a Stockli dealer.

I must have missed the point when this changed to free ride skis

Being the noob guy, are Stockli AX’s free ride skis?

 

[James]

No. All mountain.
It's odd that Stockli uses "tour" for a non touring ski series.

 

[Started at 53]

No. All mountain.
It's odd that Stockli uses "tour" for a non touring ski series.

View attachment 63771

So that is a screen shot from AX literature?