LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
129
Location
SLC
I'm curious about this too. I skied the AX and the AR back to back and when I skied back to the demo hut I told the rep the AR seemed like it had a natural turn radius that was tighter than the AX. At the time I didn't know the turn radius of either. Either will turn any turn but the AR sweet spot was a tighter turn.

Radius math usually indicates how a ski will perform, but not always. Due to the shape of the AR nose, it can respond quicker to tipping than the AX and can perform like a shorter radius ski for some skiers.

For myself, the AR is a much quicker ski. My style of skiing is very early tipping with exaggerated angles. Sometimes the AR feels like a SL for me at slower speeds, at higher speeds it acts much more in line with the longer radius indicated. I ski the 182 in the AR and the 175 in the AX. I feel like the AR is more versatile not only in conditions, but turn shapes as well.
 
Last edited:

Scrundy

I like beer
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
433
Location
Conklin NY
Radius math usually indicates how a ski will perform, but not always. Due to the shape of the AR nose, it can respond quicker to tipping than the AX and can perform like a shorter radius ski for some skiers.

For myself, the AR is a much quicker ski. My style of skiing is very early tipping with exaggerated angles. Sometimes the AR feels like a SL for me at slower speeds, at higher speeds it acts much more in line with the longer radius indicated. I ski the 182 in the AR and the 175 in the AX. I feel like the AR is more versatile not only in conditions, but turn shapes as well.
What would you say the tip is like on the AR vrs the AX? The AX is quite a bit stouter than the SR series, I like that about the AX. I ski the AX as a all mountain ski more than just a carver, I do both but enjoy doing a little of everything. Also like a 2 degree side over a 3 for all mountain. Yeah I miss it on hard days carving but overall the 2 is best for me. So guess what I’m trying to say I know they bill the AR as a all mountain race ski, to me that says it more carve oriented, am I correct?
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
129
Location
SLC
The tip on the AR is a little more stout than an SR, but torsionally softer than the AX. The widest point is closer toward the tip. It has almost no rocker. The AX has a little more rocker. The tip is rather wide compared to the rest of the ski.

This ski feels like a SR off piste and a carver on piste. I used to say the SR95 was the most versatile of the Stockli, but I think the AR surpasses it.

I would only say the AR is more of carver when you are really pushing it at high speed. Lower speed the AX will feel more energy.
 

Attachments

EricG

Lost somewhere!
Skier
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Posts
943
Location
VT
I’ve looked online at pictures of many used (demo) AX, AR & SC. It seems that many have big chips out of the top sheet. Are people this careless or are the top sheets/edge kinda fragile?
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
129
Location
SLC
I’ve looked online at pictures of many used (demo) AX, AR & SC. It seems that many have big chips out of the top sheet. Are people this careless or are the top sheets/edge kinda fragile?
The newer 2018/19-19/20 AX topsheet is called turtle grip. It is crazy tough. If there are chips in those, it is because the skier is a total jerry.

The top sheet on the SC and AR is called 3.0. It is still pretty tough but not as strong as turtle grip. If people are chip them, it's cause they are either bad skiers or they are kicking snow off skis super hard.

I am a very tight footed skier and former moguls guy. I have never chipped the top sheets on any Stockli skis, and I ski rather aggressively. I usually only see chipping on heavily used rental fleet skis.

The old red and gray SR88 and the 2015-16 AX was the only top sheets I saw that were not on par with durability needs.

If you haven't had issues I the past, you probably won't have in issue with any of those skis.
 

EricG

Lost somewhere!
Skier
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Posts
943
Location
VT
If you haven't had issues I the past, you probably won't have in issue with any of those skis.
I’ve never had an issue. But I was looking for a used sub 80mm setup and saw some online. I was just surprised by the levels of damage. I’m guessing they were used more than advertised. I’ll keep hunting for a lightly used SC or SL.
 

flbufl

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Posts
129
From my own experience, the topsheet of Stockli skis are more prone to be damaged by side impact than some of the other brands.

Cap construction skis are more resistant to side impact. Stockli uses the traditional sandwich construction. There is a 90° angle between the top sheet and the sidewall. If you check the constructions of some mainstream brands, e.g., Nordica, you will find even their sandwich skis have small cap like structure above the sidewall. I also have a pair of Blossom skis, the edge of the top sheet was slanted by a 45° angle to reduce the chance of damage by side impact.

Again, above is just my own experience. If you are such an expert skier who never fall, never got skis crossed during the whole season, you probably won't have any problems.

I’ve never had an issue. But I was looking for a used sub 80mm setup and saw some online. I was just surprised by the levels of damage. I’m guessing they were used more than advertised. I’ll keep hunting for a lightly used SC or SL.
 

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
9,329
I'll take a laminate ski any day over a cap. There are some good hybrids though. The only competition cap skis right now I can think of is ID One. I've definitely seen those trashed also, but they get serious abuse. Atomic seems to have gone back to laminate.

This Stockli chipping thing is a non issue. Don't buy a used chipped one.
 

Scrundy

I like beer
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
433
Location
Conklin NY
Only chipping I’ve seen are on the SR series. Think it would be real hard to chip a AX probably dam near impossible. Totally different top sheet, I can see a slice but that’s normal to any ski.
 

flbufl

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Posts
129
Now you see one.

Just to be clear, I love my Stockli skis. I am just trying to answer the OP's question honestly from my own experience. The chipping of the topsheet is mainly cosmetic, does not affect the performance of the skis.

Only chipping I’ve seen are on the SR series. Think it would be real hard to chip a AX probably dam near impossible. Totally different top sheet, I can see a slice but that’s normal to any ski.
 

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
9,329
With laminate skis you really want to file, grind, sand, whatever the top sheet edge to sidewall. Make it a 45 or some angle or round it. Some skis have this pre done. Race skis in general do not.
 

Choucas

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Posts
196
I’ve had 2 pair of AX’s, and they are the toughest tops I’ve ever seen. No chips or scratches. Skis look like new after a season of use.
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
129
Location
SLC
Just fyi,

The factory has purchased 2 top sheet beveling machines to be implemented this next summer.

I know this will be used on Stormriders. I'll find out if it will be used on Laser Series. Fyi the Turtle grip top sheets on Laser X series have some top sheet bevel on them. (cx,sx,ax)
 

givethepigeye

Really, just Rob will do
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
771
Location
The CLT (or a plane)
With laminate skis you really want to file, grind, sand, whatever the top sheet edge to sidewall. Make it a 45 or some angle or round it. Some skis have this pre done. Race skis in general do not.
^Best advice. I had a pair (still do) of old Kastle FX104's (the yellow one) - could have sworn the topsheets were made of glass. My SR95's not a single mark. 2+ years, <- i ran a file down the corner to round them off. That is probably my fault for not filing the Kastles - skied great. I like the SR95's a bit more. In fact I think I sold my extra FX104's to @James
 

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
9,329
In fact I think I sold my extra FX104's to @James
Lol, yep! Sadly, they still sit. I made a bone headed purchase on bindings and am awaiting the second part to attach them. No one wants to deal with it. Haven’t really had the snow anyway, and then I was injured,

I usually use my mongo 12 inch pansar file. Then a round sanding drum in a drill, followed by hand sand paper.

In the past I’ve sliced my hand carrying skis to the car. Then I’m bleeding, and have to ask someone in the lot to pull the keys out of my coat pocket so I don’t smear it with blood. That was a tiny chip on a slalom ski. The top sheet is very sharp.
 
Last edited:

MasterHero

Booting up
Skier
Joined
May 4, 2019
Posts
17
Location
Italy
a friend tested the Wrt 2021. . .
sorry to tell you that it's totally another ski. . .
not even comparable (for the worse) with the current model . . .
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
129
Location
SLC
a friend tested the Wrt 2021. . .
sorry to tell you that it's totally another ski. . .
not even comparable (for the worse) with the current model . . .

I have skied the 2021 WRT ST

The ski itself is almost identical to the current one. The only difference is that there is a carbon strip that minimizes distortion in reverse flexing meaning less chatter at high speeds. This has been a hidden tech used on a bunch of our World Cup skiers skis for the past few years.

It is likely that he tested it in a different binding set up.

When in Andermatt we tested the same ski models with multiple bindings and it is crazy how different the performance characteristics are between the plate/binding set ups.

The ski is offered with both the SRT and WRT binding. The SRT is much more forgiving and the ski is very different. Not nearly as precise or powerful, but much more playful and well behaved. With the WRT binding the ski is almost exactly the same, the difference would not be noticeable unless someone knew what they were looking for.
IMG_7822.jpg
 

MasterHero

Booting up
Skier
Joined
May 4, 2019
Posts
17
Location
Italy
I have skied the 2021 WRT ST

The ski itself is almost identical to the current one. The only difference is that there is a carbon strip that minimizes distortion in reverse flexing meaning less chatter at high speeds. This has been a hidden tech used on a bunch of our World Cup skiers skis for the past few years.

It is likely that he tested it in a different binding set up.

When in Andermatt we tested the same ski models with multiple bindings and it is crazy how different the performance characteristics are between the plate/binding set ups.

The ski is offered with both the SRT and WRT binding. The SRT is much more forgiving and the ski is very different. Not nearly as precise or powerful, but much more playful and well behaved. With the WRT binding the ski is almost exactly the same, the difference would not be noticeable unless someone knew what they were looking for.View attachment 91144
Thank you for reply . . .
Also this year's model changes a lot depending on the mounted plate . . .
With ‘confort plate” is “normal (good) ski . . . with “racing plate” is more and more ! ! !
 

Kuuseensuksija

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Posts
4
Location
Finland
The Unicorn you are describing is the SC. I could go on and on with a longer reply, but the SC is what you are looking for.
Lindsey, you were right. I spent yesterday testing the SC and AX, and drove home with the SC. Easily the best ski out of all I've demoed this season.

The AX was a fine ski, and felt easy and predictable in all turn shapes and responded consistently when speed picked up. It was also very comfortable in skidded turns. However, I also found like @Rebound Hound that it felt a bit overdamped, and did not have the pop and energy I expect from a piste ski. The SC had that in spades, give it some welly and it bounces back like a speed bag, but remains accessible. SC seemed to have a larger speed range, to my surprise. Much better in short turns than the AX and faster edge to edge, but could do any turn shape at will. In fact, it was so much better for my purposes that I have to wonder why there's not much noise about it online, and the AX gets all the attention.
 
Top