givethepigeye

Really, just Rob will do
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Nov 13, 2015
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710
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The CLT (or a plane)
@LindseyB so my SOP a file to the tips and tail ist verboten? ogsmile Seriously, usually get a tune before I ski new skis. Will a robot do a “progressive tune <- assume that means less base bevel under bindings moving to more as you teach tips.
 

ARL67

Invisible Airwaves Crackle With Life
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Jan 15, 2016
Posts
500
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Waterloo, ON, Canada
I visited my local Stockli shop last month ( Squire John's in Collingwood, ON ) and saw their Stockli fleet for this season. They went heavy on the Laser AR which I am not surprised at, based in the AR's dimensions and targeted terrain, which suits our local skiing conditions to a T. They also had lots of AX, SL, GS, WRT all mounted up ready to go, but I did not see one SX in their fleet this year. I will inquire with them next time I visit.

I have a new SX in 170, but haven't skied it yet as our snow is till too sparse and I don't want to risk base damage just yet. On a whim I bought some used MX84 Limited 176 from Pugski Buy & Sell as they were so well priced and too good looking, that I couldn't say no. I am really enjoying that ski so far and no plans on swapping it out ( for now ! )

@LindseyB
A few pages back you gave some praise to the Kastle MX84 as competing very well in its class.
If you have any experiences on these, how might you compare the AR to the MX84 as they are somewhat similar on paper. I take no issue of you speaking of competing brands.

AR: 175, 130-83-112, R16.5 >
MX84: 176, 128-84-112, R16.3

thanks - Andy
 

WadeHoliday

Getting off the lift
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Nov 30, 2015
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209
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North Tahoe
Thanks for chiming in LindseyB !
Nicks shop is certainly a Bozeman asset already

They offer incredible season tune deals.
We went for the couples season tune,
Two pairs of skis done each week for the season at $189 ! At that price my tuning bench will just collect dust.
What!
I might have to move there just for that. 2 tunes would cost me that! Congrats on a shop you believe in with a price that is unreal!

Good info on tunes, thx LindsayB.
Have the new 105 now, sr 95 and AX being shipped to me this week. Planning to ski them back to back this month with their comparables in my existing quiver, (dps79, enforcer95, kastle105) and see which stay and which go... my gut is the "quiet" stockli feel is still the best fit for their calming nature in our so after rain/heat affected and refrozen 'loud" snow... with our serious rain event last wed and solid refreeze that night, I was missing that feel which is why I pulled the trigger on two more stocklis...

Cheers!
W
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
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Jan 14, 2019
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122
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SLC
I visited my local Stockli shop last month ( Squire John's in Collingwood, ON ) and saw their Stockli fleet for this season. They went heavy on the Laser AR which I am not surprised at, based in the AR's dimensions and targeted terrain, which suits our local skiing conditions to a T. They also had lots of AX, SL, GS, WRT all mounted up ready to go, but I did not see one SX in their fleet this year. I will inquire with them next time I visit.

I have a new SX in 170, but haven't skied it yet as our snow is till too sparse and I don't want to risk base damage just yet. On a whim I bought some used MX84 Limited 176 from Pugski Buy & Sell as they were so well priced and too good looking, that I couldn't say no. I am really enjoying that ski so far and no plans on swapping it out ( for now ! )

@LindseyB
A few pages back you gave some praise to the Kastle MX84 as competing very well in its class.
If you have any experiences on these, how might you compare the AR to the MX84 as they are somewhat similar on paper. I take no issue of you speaking of competing brands.

AR: 175, 130-83-112, R16.5 >
MX84: 176, 128-84-112, R16.3

thanks - Andy
I sent a PM for most of my thoughts.

I am unsure of the Limited edition as I have not skied it. As I understand, the Limited is one of 2 models made at the original Kastle factory. I have only skied the MX84 built in the Head factory. So my knowledge is narrowed to that particular ski.

These are the rest of my thoughts.

The AR is quieter and tracks more predictably.
The AR wakes up at slower speeds and doesn't have a speed limit unless you are sized down.
The AR has a wider window of who can make it perform.

The AR is open to you skiing it at with any input and many speeds. It uses most of the keys on the piano, it can nail notes in several octaves that make it addicting and at a wide variety of bpm. I think of it as a classic. (Led Zeppelin)

The AR is not as much an instant top40 hit like the Laser AX. It starts out as a decent ski and gets better every run you ski it. It has become my second favorite Laser after the WRT. I will ski the AR more than any other ski this season and next.

If you were to ski both the MX84 and the AR to the point that you know both skis really well and can rally each, you will have fun on both skis. After a few fun runs on the MX84, not all, but a majority of the people start missing the feeling and range of the AR and stick to the AR.

The Stockli on snow feel does something abnormal in that the smoothness and tracking seemingly changes snow conditions under your foot and it changes the way people move on their skis. It's has an element of cheating. I see so many skiers that thought they had already reached their prime switch to Stockli and get better than they ever thought they could even with their best physical years behind them.

Besides the differences in range. For me the biggest differentiator is the on snow feel between the two.

The Stockli feel is very compelling and inspires a confidence that can't be imitated. There is a feeling on the Stockli you can't get with any other brand and that is what draws most skiers in and never lets them go.

An interesting note, I visited Jans DV on the New Year's Day and they reported that the AR is outselling the AX after people demo both skis for a half day.
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
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@LindseyB so my SOP a file to the tips and tail ist verboten? ogsmile Seriously, usually get a tune before I ski new skis. Will a robot do a “progressive tune <- assume that means less base bevel under bindings moving to more as you teach tips.
Yes you have the right idea. Some call it a radial tune.

The progressive tune can be completed by the HTT process on the Montana machines equipped with this system:


I know a lot of people that try to do this type of tuning by hand. I myself do it sometimes and while the result is awesome, it is very labor intensive.

Because kids skis are typically junk and railed I always bevel the tips and tails more for my little girls.
 

Skeeze

Booting up
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Aug 30, 2017
Posts
9
Thought I’d add some impressions of the 19/20 175cm Laser GS. I’m 5’11, 155lbs, have never raced or been on a GS ski before, but like to ski fast and aggressively (primarily on 108-116mm waist skis).

I’m in the Dolomites currently and it’s full hardpack, so I decided to rent some proper piste skis. On anything smooth, these are ridiculously good. Although 175cm is smaller than any inbounds ski I’ve used for years, I never found the skis’ speed limit.

60-70mph on World Cup downhill courses—not a problem. Super G turns down scraped, steep groomers when everyone else is sliding around—these skis are on rails. Want to bend them into shalom turns when you have plenty of speed already—totally fine.

Now I will say, they’re not good in moguls. I’d take my 187cm Moment Meridians over them any day. They’re also not good at slow speeds, there’s no way I could bend them going 15-20mph. They don’t like to slide around. Getting backseat at all is not an option. They’re also not well balanced in the air compared to modern freeride skis—you need to be in a race-like tuck while in the air to stay forward on them.

But if conditions let you go fast and truly carve, I’ve never been on anything comparable. If you truly want to ski fast on groomers, these are the best skis I’ve been on.
 

martyg

Out on the slopes
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Nov 24, 2017
Posts
704
I have a handful of my skis, at my fingertips, at our hill. When I walk in the ski valet says, "Good morning Marty. Which skis would you like to ski today?"

The other day I had them pull my Laser GS skis. It was a bit later in the day. Hard snow. However it had been skied on. The Laser GS's gave almost too much feedback - like driving a performance spots car with low profile tires on a dirt road. First thing in the AM, on groomers - great. However if I want to ski groomers, then hit a little powder stash in the trees, which leads out to bumps, which leads to 40 degree icy death.... the AX is my ski of choice.

Day-in, day-out, my AX's are my go-to. I also have SC and SL's. For legit powder days I have head Kore 95's and 105's. I'd say each of the before mentioned skis is skied less than 5 days per year, in 100+ day years. The AX is just that consistently good for me across a huge range of conditions.
 

JimL

Putting on skis
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Aug 6, 2019
Posts
62
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Albuquerque, NM
There are certain people in a certain organization that will remain nameless that actually like the Warden better than the Sth2.
Hmm, he said, channeling his inner Deadpool, "That organization wouldn't happen to rhyme with mugpee, would it? :ogbiggrin:

But seriously, other than the Warden being compatible with more boot types, is there any particular reason for preferring one to the other? Is there a Cage Match brewing?
 

Peter P

At the base lodge
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Nov 9, 2019
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8
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Park City, UT
The WRT-ST has the speed abilities of a much longer ski while feeling like a slalom ski when initiating turns. It is a true World Cup room GS build with a tighter radius. You can't shake the ski unless you are straightlining it at stupid high speeds.

The WRT-ST is in a class all it's own.

The SL in a 170 is a non FIS SL. IT is not in the same power class as the WRT-ST.

What is really crazy is how much the binding choice affects how these skis perform. If you are looking for power, the X-Lab/WRT binding and plate is really an awesome driver.

But just get the AR for now.

This guy gives a perfect description:



Greetings Lindsey and Happy New Year.
So I got the SR95 184's thanks to your recommendation and love them ... especially in the fluffy stuff. Not so great on the steeper moguls. I am glad I never went any wider and don't think I will ever purchase a true powder ski.
I am looking for the perfect front side complement to the SR95. Trying to decide between: SX versus GS versus WRT-ST. I had my sights on 177 or 184 SX with a carbon plate but then started reading a lot of good reviews about the WRT so now I am torn. Jans has some GS with plates which would make that an easy pick-up but I dont know if that will as versatile and fun as the SX ... What's good at hard pack, steep moguls, NASTAR, maybe masters training, blast ??? Thanks, P
 

LindseyB

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Greetings Lindsey and Happy New Year.
So I got the SR95 184's thanks to your recommendation and love them ... especially in the fluffy stuff. Not so great on the steeper moguls. I am glad I never went any wider and don't think I will ever purchase a true powder ski.
I am looking for the perfect front side complement to the SR95. Trying to decide between: SX versus GS versus WRT-ST. I had my sights on 177 or 184 SX with a carbon plate but then started reading a lot of good reviews about the WRT so now I am torn. Jans has some GS with plates which would make that an easy pick-up but I dont know if that will as versatile and fun as the SX ... What's good at hard pack, steep moguls, NASTAR, maybe masters training, blast ??? Thanks, P
My .02 if the SR95 is feeling less than nimble in steep moguls is to exaggerate your retraction in transition. For reference, Marcus Caston is really good at this, you can see him do it through most of his videos on all types of terrain. Doing so will make that ski much quicker side to side. In transition forward feet will make that ski slow and unresponsive. If your heels are pulled back it becomes really quick. Trust the tips of that one in wild terrain and it will thank you for it.

The most versatile would be the SX. It sounds like you are looking for the ski that will be multiple duty and out of the three, the SX would fit that request the best of the skis you mention.

The most exciting would be the WRT-ST. It is definitely the most energetic of the skis. To make it more versatile you could put a tamed down binding on it.

GS would fall right the middle.

If the 95 was a lot to handle in the moguls, the GS will be more so. It all depends on how you ski the moguls. I know a lot of guys that love the SR95 in the bumps, but they all ski the 175 version.

The WRT only comes in a 162,172 cm for now, but it feels longer in stability than anyone would expect.

When I know I'm going to ski bumps, I take the SC. Lots of good skis to pick from can be a conundrum.
 

LindseyB

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******Since I can't edit my stupor of typing in the last post now that the edited period is expired, let me try and explain it better.

"My .02 if the SR95 is feeling less than nimble in steep moguls is to exaggerate your retraction in transition."

In my opinion, if the SR95 is feeling less than nimble, I suggest exaggerated retraction through transition.
 

Kuuseensuksija

At the base lodge
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Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Posts
3
Location
Finland
I'm in the process of buying a new on-piste ski, and considering the Stöckli Laser SC or AX. I am looking for a single groomer ski that can handle all conditions on-piste. Maybe someone with experience with both, or even @LindseyB could offer some insight please?

I'm 185cm, 100kg, advanced skier, reasonably fit, skied for 35 years. Quite technical, prefer carving at speed when the slope length and conditions allow. I like to vary between small and medium turns, or larger arcs if at a big mountain. Slopes vary from local hills in Southern Finland (100m vertical) to fjälls in Northern Finland (300m vertical) to Alpine trips. Snow conditions on groomers are everything, ice with bad artificial snow, nice hardpack, soft snow, spring slush and afternoon pile-ups and bumps. Fresh snow can be rare locally, 5-10cm at most when it happens, and if there's much more I could rent a fatter ski. I've been on detuned non-FIS slalom Rossis (65mm) for most of the past 10 years. I like them fine when conditions are firm, but late afternoon pile-ups and slush can make the going pretty sticky and my confidence at speed drops - and the Rossis like a bit of speed to really start working. At the other end, in large turns in the Alps, they show their limits with chattering.

So here's the dilemma. I am obviously looking for great carving ability geared to small/medium turns, but would also like an improvement in handling of bad snow conditions. The ski would also need to function well at lower speeds so that the short runs at local hills make any sense, but on the other hand have the range to also be great when going fast in the Alps. I would prefer liveliness at low speeds but stability at high speeds, with a nice kick from the ski at ends of turns when pushing it. I'm aware that these are generally contradictory properties. How do the SC and AX stack up? Is there a marked difference in slower speed liveliness? Carving ability at speed? Bad snow handling? SL versus GS type feel? Am I looking for a unicorn?

For reference, a couple of other skis I've tried and liked: Atomic Redster X9 Widebody (75mm/168cm) had good energy and strength, felt like no speed limit, a workout to ski but in a good way. On the other hand also it felt dead at low speeds, and didn't have much of a character and seemed to like a single turn radius. Elan Wingman 82 CTI (82mm/178cm) had great liveliness and character, worked great at slow to medium speeds, danced through afternoon piles, and surprised me with how agile a wide piste/all mountain ski can be. But it didn't feel that confident at speed, and the stability and smoothness on the arc was not up to the level of a stiffer ski. Also for reference, the Atomic X9 Narrow (65mm/181cm) was too much ski both for the local slope and my legs.

I should be able to demo the SC, but not necessarily the AX. Would appreciate any insight into differences and similarities, so I could judge based on only skiing the SC. Thanks!
 

MasterHero

Booting up
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Joined
May 4, 2019
Posts
14
Location
Italy
After 10 days on Wrt 172, I can say . . . WOW . . . this is The Ski ! ! !
Unbelievable fast in edges change, first time in my ski life, I moved back the bindings . . .
On long turn, it’s stable as a Gs (best Gs on market), on medium or short turn simply
fantastic . . .
obviously the ski needs groomed slope (better hard snow)
 

Rebound Hound

At the base lodge
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Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Posts
15
Location
Saalbach, Austria
After 10 days on Wrt 172, I can say . . . WOW . . . this is The Ski ! ! !
Unbelievable fast in edges change, first time in my ski life, I moved back the bindings . . .
On long turn, it’s stable as a Gs (best Gs on market), on medium or short turn simply
fantastic . . .
obviously the ski needs groomed slope (better hard snow)
I'd love to try them. Just can't find them for rent or demo or sale anywhere. I do wonder if i'd find them a bit short though.

I'm looking for a bit of advice. I rented the GS 180cm, SC 177cm and the SX 177cm.

I found the GS had loads of rebound and energy. Quite a wild ski which was fast, exciting and tricky to tame. Quite tiring and a bit of a handful though but I loved it. The 180cm is certainly a lot of ski compared something like the Atomic X9 181cm - maybe similar to the 183cm Atomic G9. I'm wondering if I should try it in 175cm or go with the 180cm as an aspirational ski I can progress to. The GS felt very powerful - almost overpowering in long turns at times but I enjoyed that feeling of force on my legs in the turns even if I find myself stopping for rests often.

The SC had more rebound in the short turns than the SX and AX - Maybe the TRT is higher performance than the Turtle shell? The turtle shell skis seem very compliant, easy and smooth but for me lack some excitement in the turn. I think they may have been similar in the long turns - the SC and SX. I really liked the versatility of the SC and it seemed much less tiring but still higher perfomance than the turtle shell AX and SX. It switches between long and short turns so intuitively and I feel like it could make any kind of turn I wanted with ease.
I found it a very easy put still energetic and lively ski but perhaps not quite as exciting / thrilling as the GS? Still exciting but not as powerful and aggressive in the long turns on your legs. You really feel the force with the GS.

By the way congratulations because I would be happy to own any of your ski's i've tested from Stockli. They are all amazing skis - it's just finding what characteristics you appreciate most.

In terms of outright power and performance I would rank the constructions in the following order:

FIS > VRT > TRT > Turtle Shell

Would you agree?

What do you think? Should I try the 175cm GS to see if it's much more manageable and less tiring but with the same power and performance, or just buy the 180cm GS and get fitter and better, or get the SC as an exciting, fun and versatile ski that will do it all on piste without tiring me too much and still give me pop and rebound I look for in a ski?
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
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Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Posts
122
Location
SLC
I'm in the process of buying a new on-piste ski, and considering the Stöckli Laser SC or AX. I am looking for a single groomer ski that can handle all conditions on-piste. Maybe someone with experience with both, or even @LindseyB could offer some insight please?

I'm 185cm, 100kg, advanced skier, reasonably fit, skied for 35 years. Quite technical, prefer carving at speed when the slope length and conditions allow. I like to vary between small and medium turns, or larger arcs if at a big mountain. Slopes vary from local hills in Southern Finland (100m vertical) to fjälls in Northern Finland (300m vertical) to Alpine trips. Snow conditions on groomers are everything, ice with bad artificial snow, nice hardpack, soft snow, spring slush and afternoon pile-ups and bumps. Fresh snow can be rare locally, 5-10cm at most when it happens, and if there's much more I could rent a fatter ski. I've been on detuned non-FIS slalom Rossis (65mm) for most of the past 10 years. I like them fine when conditions are firm, but late afternoon pile-ups and slush can make the going pretty sticky and my confidence at speed drops - and the Rossis like a bit of speed to really start working. At the other end, in large turns in the Alps, they show their limits with chattering.

So here's the dilemma. I am obviously looking for great carving ability geared to small/medium turns, but would also like an improvement in handling of bad snow conditions. The ski would also need to function well at lower speeds so that the short runs at local hills make any sense, but on the other hand have the range to also be great when going fast in the Alps. I would prefer liveliness at low speeds but stability at high speeds, with a nice kick from the ski at ends of turns when pushing it. I'm aware that these are generally contradictory properties. How do the SC and AX stack up? Is there a marked difference in slower speed liveliness? Carving ability at speed? Bad snow handling? SL versus GS type feel? Am I looking for a unicorn?

For reference, a couple of other skis I've tried and liked: Atomic Redster X9 Widebody (75mm/168cm) had good energy and strength, felt like no speed limit, a workout to ski but in a good way. On the other hand also it felt dead at low speeds, and didn't have much of a character and seemed to like a single turn radius. Elan Wingman 82 CTI (82mm/178cm) had great liveliness and character, worked great at slow to medium speeds, danced through afternoon piles, and surprised me with how agile a wide piste/all mountain ski can be. But it didn't feel that confident at speed, and the stability and smoothness on the arc was not up to the level of a stiffer ski. Also for reference, the Atomic X9 Narrow (65mm/181cm) was too much ski both for the local slope and my legs.

I should be able to demo the SC, but not necessarily the AX. Would appreciate any insight into differences and similarities, so I could judge based on only skiing the SC. Thanks!
The Unicorn you are describing is the SC. I could go on and on with a longer reply, but the SC is what you are looking for.

Have fun!
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
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I'd love to try them. Just can't find them for rent or demo or sale anywhere. I do wonder if i'd find them a bit short though.

I'm looking for a bit of advice. I rented the GS 180cm, SC 177cm and the SX 177cm.

I found the GS had loads of rebound and energy. Quite a wild ski which was fast, exciting and tricky to tame. Quite tiring and a bit of a handful though but I loved it. The 180cm is certainly a lot of ski compared something like the Atomic X9 181cm - maybe similar to the 183cm Atomic G9. I'm wondering if I should try it in 175cm or go with the 180cm as an aspirational ski I can progress to. The GS felt very powerful - almost overpowering in long turns at times but I enjoyed that feeling of force on my legs in the turns even if I find myself stopping for rests often.

The SC had more rebound in the short turns than the SX and AX - Maybe the TRT is higher performance than the Turtle shell? The turtle shell skis seem very compliant, easy and smooth but for me lack some excitement in the turn. I think they may have been similar in the long turns - the SC and SX. I really liked the versatility of the SC and it seemed much less tiring but still higher perfomance than the turtle shell AX and SX. It switches between long and short turns so intuitively and I feel like it could make any kind of turn I wanted with ease.
I found it a very easy put still energetic and lively ski but perhaps not quite as exciting / thrilling as the GS? Still exciting but not as powerful and aggressive in the long turns on your legs. You really feel the force with the GS.

By the way congratulations because I would be happy to own any of your ski's i've tested from Stockli. They are all amazing skis - it's just finding what characteristics you appreciate most.

In terms of outright power and performance I would rank the constructions in the following order:

FIS > VRT > TRT > Turtle Shell

Would you agree?

What do you think? Should I try the 175cm GS to see if it's much more manageable and less tiring but with the same power and performance, or just buy the 180cm GS and get fitter and better, or get the SC as an exciting, fun and versatile ski that will do it all on piste without tiring me too much and still give me pop and rebound I look for in a ski?

Your assessment of the Stockli line up is accurate.

I would choose between the 175 GS and the SC considering 2 variables.

If the force of the GS is the most exciting factor and you are committed to strengthening your cardio so you don't have to rest, then maybe it is the ski for you would love most.

If you want a fun ski regardless of the conditions, turn shape, and days on mountain then I would go with the SC. You can rally it the first day of the year to the last. You don't have to be in your best ski shape to enjoy the ski top to bottom. It will give you many turn shape options. Just make sure you have the higher performance binding option if you purchase the SC.

But maybe the power of the GS is too tempting???
 

Razorback

At the base lodge
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Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Posts
7
Location
sweden
I'd love to try them. Just can't find them for rent or demo or sale anywhere. I do wonder if i'd find them a bit short though.

I'm looking for a bit of advice. I rented the GS 180cm, SC 177cm and the SX 177cm.


I found the GS had loads of rebound and energy. Quite a wild ski which was fast, exciting and tricky to tame. Quite tiring and a bit of a handful though but I loved it. The 180cm is certainly a lot of ski compared something like the Atomic X9 181cm - maybe similar to the 183cm Atomic G9. I'm wondering if I should try it in 175cm or go with the 180cm as an aspirational ski I can progress to. The GS felt very powerful - almost overpowering in long turns at times but I enjoyed that feeling of force on my legs in the turns even if I find myself stopping for rests often.

The SC had more rebound in the short turns than the SX and AX - Maybe the TRT is higher performance than the Turtle shell? The turtle shell skis seem very compliant, easy and smooth but for me lack some excitement in the turn. I think they may have been similar in the long turns - the SC and SX. I really liked the versatility of the SC and it seemed much less tiring but still higher perfomance than the turtle shell AX and SX. It switches between long and short turns so intuitively and I feel like it could make any kind of turn I wanted with ease.
I found it a very easy put still energetic and lively ski but perhaps not quite as exciting / thrilling as the GS? Still exciting but not as powerful and aggressive in the long turns on your legs. You really feel the force with the GS.

By the way congratulations because I would be happy to own any of your ski's i've tested from Stockli. They are all amazing skis - it's just finding what characteristics you appreciate most.

In terms of outright power and performance I would rank the constructions in the following order:

FIS > VRT > TRT > Turtle Shell

Would you agree?

What do you think? Should I try the 175cm GS to see if it's much more manageable and less tiring but with the same power and performance, or just buy the 180cm GS and get fitter and better, or get the SC as an exciting, fun and versatile ski that will do it all on piste without tiring me too much and still give me pop and rebound I look for in a ski?
Whats your lenght and weight?
I have recently started looking into i GS in a shorter lenght as an alternative to SC. So kind of in the same situation. But havent skied any of them since 2011 when the SC was only 63mm underfoot
 

Rebound Hound

At the base lodge
Skier
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Posts
15
Location
Saalbach, Austria
The Unicorn you are describing is the SC. I could go on and on with a longer reply, but the SC is what you are looking for.

Have fun!
I was thinking the same. Now that I've decided to ditch the idea of all mountain and go for an dedicate piste ski instead of all mountain do you think I and get the GS 180cm, GS175cm or the SC177cm?

I do feel the GS 180 liked to try and throw me in the backseat at speed when it gets the chance but I'm sure if I can get good on that it would make me a better skier. It's also a wild and thrilling ride - an absolute riot but on steeper pistes it probably wants to go way faster than I am comfortable with so I end up forcing into less than agile short turns. My top speed for long carving turns would be 50mph or about 80km/hr. I tend to do my best long turns on steep blue and easy to moderate red.
 
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