The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[Rebound Hound]

The WRT has a more power than an SL FIS, but isn't quite as snappy because the radius is a little longer. It lets you ride a long radius or roll shorter turns. The short turns require some good cardio if you are hammering it because of how much energy the ski pushes back. The ski matches the power you put in to it. On Ice, the WRT-ST with a powerful binding is really fun.

The AR and AX are very different. The AR is more versatile for more conditions.

I think for versatility you will like the AR more. If you feel the 185 Enforcer being a double rocketed ski is too much work in the 185, you might want to go with the AR in 175cm. I was suggesting the 182 because of your weight and height, but the 175 will still support your size just fine.

Start with the AR and then build your quiver from there. Eventually you will want the SR95, it is more responsive, grippy, and stable than the Enforcer, but doesn't sound like it would be your daily driver.

How are they very different - What would you say the AX is for? Where does the the SR88 fit into all of this? I'm starting to get more comfortable with the enforcer now especially after it's had the edges sharpened. It's probably the width me more than the length. Did I read in this thread somewhere that you recommended to size up for the AR and down for the AX?

I do consider skis in the 90s to be a very wide ski compared to what i'm used to so you're right - definitely wouldn't be my daily driver. I don't know if the 88 could or not. 68mm is my current comfort zone so the further I go from that the less daily-able I would consider it.

One thing about the AX that seems good is the turtle shell for teaching at slower speeds or on blue slopes. The G9s really only like to turn when you get the speed up a bit. I'm not sure I would want beginners snow ploughing over my new Stocklis though.

This Sounds Good: AX=Push energy and energy bounces back. This to me is a play ski. This type of ski boosts ego and makes me feel good about my turns.

 

[James]

One look at a WRT vs AX in the store and you'd see the difference. It's not likely you'll see the wrt except in a big dealer that has high skill level clients.
WRT - very narrow range of skill level - high skill.
AX- very large range of skill level.

 

[Rebound Hound]

Is the AR a higher performance construction over the AX since it says World Cup whereas the Turtle shell is more forgiving? Is there a big difference between the 2 constructions in terms of forgiveness, skiing at as lower speeds (turtle shell) Vs high speed stability, stiffness and strong rebound (world cup)?

 

[Rebound Hound]

I did find a shop that sells the WRT around here and has them for rental. Trying these tomorrow

 

[Rebound Hound]

I don't think the AX are for me. I could tell they were high quality, well made and the bases felt really smooth right from putting them on. At first it felt like I was floating on the pistes. As I got used to the feeling I started to realise that I might want a stockli ski but perhaps not this kind of stockli ski. They're a nice ski but lack the rebound, energy and excitement in the turn that I got from Atomic G9s. I thought the edge grip would be better too. Perhaps they weren't stiff enough to give me that kind of feeling I was looking for. I have a feeling all mountain might not cut it for me on the piste although I haven't got hold of an AR rental yet. Given that feedback what would you suggest for me? I do have a preference for short and medium turns. I don't really have the ability to pull off nice energetic linked carving medium / long turns on black runs / steeps the G9 18.4m radius like I can on reds and blues. Too fast and out of control. I struggle on hardpack/icy feeling slope too. Perhaps the WRT might be up my street?

 

[LindseyB]

Skis with more rebound that the AX would include,CX,SX and especially WRT along with the race series skis, SC,SL, GS, etc.

If you are looking for the feeling of snap, the AR won't be what you want. Snappy skis also won't give you the all terrain abilities either. If you want to carve steeps and tighten your radius easily it might be the perfect ski to get you to that next level. The AR will pull G forces, but it isn't focused on snappy rebound.

Keep in mind, there is no ski out there that does every little thing better than every other ski from every category. Different skis are built for different reasons.

The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow.

 

[Rebound Hound]

Skis with more rebound that the AX would include,CX,SX and especially WRT along with the race series skis, SC,SL, GS, etc.

If you are looking for the feeling of snap, the AR won't be what you want. Snappy skis also won't give you the all terrain abilities either. If you want to carve steeps and tighten your radius easily it might be the perfect ski to get you to that next level. The AR will pull G forces, but it isn't focused on snappy rebound.

Keep in mind, there is no ski out there that does every little thing better than every other ski from every category. Different skis are built for different reasons.

The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow.

Yes I'm kind of resigned to needing at least 2 skis if not 3. The AX probably isn't all mountain enough and also isn't energetic / snappy enough for what i'm looking for. I haven't tried a slalom or an FIS ski before. Maybe I should try your WRT and SL skis and buy one of those - then look for the AR and SR series.

Do slalom skis tend to have more rebound despite the tighter radius - I don't know if it's correct but I figured you would get more rebounding turning a long radius ski short that turning a short radius ski short because you're bending and pressuring the ski more to achieve the same turn. That might be totally wrong though? I'm used to GS skis under 20m radius but I like to turn short and medium and really feel the energy and pop.

Tried the G9s in 182cm today and they were very trustworthy and stable on the hardpack / icy black pistes. I think the 177cm definitely gave me more snappy rebound as it's easier for me to work the smaller ski. I'm sure in time I could get the same with the 182cm though.

 

[James]

Yes I'm kind of resigned to needing at least 2 skis if not 3. The AX probably isn't all mountain enough and also isn't energetic / snappy enough for what i'm looking for. I haven't tried a slalom or an FIS ski before. Maybe I should try your WRT and SL skis and buy one of those - then look for the AR and SR series.

Do slalom skis tend to have more rebound despite the tighter radius - I don't know if it's correct but I figured you would get more rebounding turning a long radius ski short that turning a short radius ski short because you're bending and pressuring the ski more to achieve the same turn. That might be totally wrong though? I'm used to GS skis under 20m radius but I like to turn short and medium and really feel the energy and pop.

Tried the G9s in 182cm today and they were very trustworthy and stable on the hardpack / icy black pistes. I think the 177cm definitely gave me more snappy rebound as it's easier for me to work the smaller ski. I'm sure in time I could get the same with the 182cm though.

You're now in the realm of ski design, not Stockli models. Maybe start a different thread. Hint, look at the tail shapes. For what you want, a squarer tail is the thing.

 

[givethepigeye]

Fondue is ready!
Spent some time last night w/ drill. Not 2019’s , but still... pretty stoked to give them a whirl. Just add snow.

 

[EricG]

@LindseyB - Are all current Stockli SR's set at 1.3/2 from the factory? Or was it just certain widths?

 

[BS Slarver]

^^^ @givethepigeye - nice score on the 115s and love the vintage Macintosh - You’ve got good tasty my friend.

Was super bummed to see Stöckli stopped production on the PRO / 115 and that year as you probably know those are the last from what I’m told.
#bringbacktheSRPRO

@EricG - I had my local tuner, Nick from Montana ski tuning and bootfitting in Bozeman go over our entire fleet including both my SR 95s and SR107s. Look for my upcoming interview with Nick and wife and their brand new shop soon.

Nick asked what I wanted done with my 95s and I replied, do what ever you want to them as they were skiing a bit lackluster given the Stockli badge and frankly thought they were out of rotation and heading to a new home.
.
Gotta say the ski was ok before but with the new tune it has come back to one of the 2-3 I grab for in the rotation.
The SR95s were completely redone on the Montana machine and they have never skied better.

Disclaimer - they had been tuned before by what I thought were competent hands.

When I returned I asked what he had done ?

“ We reworked the ski completely - bases were flattened and restructured again and we did a variable base angle from tip to center and then varied again to tail with a constant 2* bevel on the sides. “

I’m not sure exactly what the tune is leaving the factory ? Is there a chance your pair gets stuck in a shipping container over the warm summer months ? Perhaps there’s a chance it’s not as the factory intended.

 

[James]

Fondue is ready!
Spent some time last night w/ drill. Not 2019’s , but still... pretty stoked to give them a whirl. Just add snow. View attachment 89148

That’s a pretty ski with those bindings.

 

[givethepigeye]

@BS Slarver - thanks, still works well, needs some work on the preset batteries, but that’s just laziness on my part, need to take it somewhere

 

[BS Slarver]

Thread drift here Rob, but audioclassics in Binghamton is the place, it’s just down the road from the Macintosh factory.

Trust me, your better off sending it in than going through the doors. Should you decide to go there - Leave your wallet at home !
If you go, schedule a tour at the factory - they still build them by hand and the listening room will blow your mind !

 

[givethepigeye]

@BS Slarver Thanks for the rec

Back to skis

 

[LindseyB]

Fondue is ready!
Spent some time last night w/ drill. Not 2019’s , but still... pretty stoked to give them a whirl. Just add snow. View attachment 89148

It would be awesome if everybody added their location on their profile to know where to send them for tunes, etc.

This ski should be tested for tune. With the wrong tune it will eat your legs, with the right tune it will be a party. the progressive tune discussed above by BS Slarver might be a good fit. I like a ski that is more beveled tip and tail and flatter under the mid section. Also, many neglect waxing on a pow day, but having the right tune will help you toss this ski around.

I advise skiing the bigger SRs by pulling both feet underneath you in transition aggressively. (Think Marcus Caston) If you get back on the tails the ski becomes unruly. If you stay over them they will be a good time.

 

[LindseyB]

^^^ @givethepigeye - nice score on the 115s and love the vintage Macintosh - You’ve got good tasty my friend.

Was super bummed to see Stöckli stopped production on the PRO / 115 and that year as you probably know those are the last from what I’m told.
#bringbacktheSRPRO

@EricG - I had my local tuner, Nick from Montana ski tuning and bootfitting in Bozeman go over our entire fleet including both my SR 95s and SR107s. Look for my upcoming interview with Nick and wife and their brand new shop soon.

Nick asked what I wanted done with my 95s and I replied, do what ever you want to them as they were skiing a bit lackluster given the Stockli badge and frankly thought they were out of rotation and heading to a new home.
.
Gotta say the ski was ok before but with the new tune it has come back to one of the 2-3 I grab for in the rotation.
The SR95s were completely redone on the Montana machine and they have never skied better.

Disclaimer - they had been tuned before by what I thought were competent hands.

When I returned I asked what he had done ?

“ We reworked the ski completely - bases were flattened and restructured again and we did a variable base angle from tip to center and then varied again to tail with a constant 2* bevel on the sides. “

I’m not sure exactly what the tune is leaving the factory ? Is there a chance your pair gets stuck in a shipping container over the warm summer months ? Perhaps there’s a chance it’s not as the factory intended.

I like Nic Turner and trust him. He knows his machines and takes pride in his work. MT Ski and Boot is going to be a great asset for Bridger and Big Sky.

I will call Nic and see what his tune specs were. I like progressive tunes and think they are better for most types of skiing.

 

[cosmoliu]

If you get back on the tails the ski becomes unruly. If you stay over them they will be a good time.

I believe that is the understatement of the day.

 

[LindseyB]

@LindseyB - Are all current Stockli SR's set at 1.3/2 from the factory? Or was it just certain widths?

The base bevels on the SR for the past 5 years has moved around a bit. The current ones are below. I give out the tune specs relunctantly, because what the factory says is 1.3 may be a half degreee different on someone else's machines. Also, the base bevels have been changing for the past few years. Base bevels are up for debate on what works best. Also the texture on the base edge can have a bigger effect that bevel sometimes and people might blame a hanging burr or a heavily structured base edge for being flat when it may not be. Even crazier, having a rough base edge sometimes works better in certain snow textures.

This is what the factory says the angles are. Some of the skis I think do really well with the factory bevels, Some I prefer flatter. For instance, I like an AX with a 1/2. I like an SR105 with a 1.4/2. Also, I checked a factory AR the other day and while it says 1.4. It looked closer to a 1 to me. So this may not be as definitive as many would like.

For this reason, when I find a base bevel and edge texture that I like, I try my best to keep it and reproduce it. I think this is one of the biggest challenges in skiing and one of the greatest rewards when it goes right. Different mountains need different base edges because they have differing snow structures. Anyone can do a decent side edge, if you find a tuner that can produce base bevels you love, treat them like gold.

As discussed earlier, a progressive base bevel can be a thing of beauty.

 

[BS Slarver]

Thanks for chiming in LindseyB !
Nicks shop is certainly a Bozeman asset already

They offer incredible season tune deals.
We went for the couples season tune,
Two pairs of skis done each week for the season at $189 ! At that price my tuning bench will just collect dust.