ZipFit Gara vs. Intuition?

[cantunamunch]

I bought the Hawx Prime 130 boots this last February. I thought I would use the stock liners until they packed out and then install the Zipfits from my previous boots. That joke lasted for about a week...!

You lasted a week, well done

 

[Noodler]

OK...so ZipFit perform the best.

What footbed/inserts are the best?

The right question is which fitter is the best at making a footbed that works for you. All 3 methods (unweighted, semi-weighted, and fully weighted) can yield a decent footbed, but it most depends on the fitter knowing what they're doing. My personal preference is semi-weighted (done while in a sitting position) as I feel it provides that best of both worlds; a better formed top surface to match the way your foot really is shaped when there's some weight on it, but without so much weight that "bad" things happen regarding the alignment of the foot as the impression is taken.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Rikki...... Where are you ? My footbeds were made/fitted etc. at Olympic Bootwerks at Squaw Valley. On the right going in. Buck is the owner and he a staff are good, very good.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Hi Noodler nice to see you here.

 

[wallyk]

@cantunamunch Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed compare and contrast between the two products. Have been doing some research on both products and based on your description the ZipFit sounds like a superior product. A couple of quick questions.

1. What types of questions would I need to ask the local shop that fits the ZipFit.....I've never purchased a last inside the 2ndary market and beyond the basics of construction, fit process, I would appreciate any guidance. Have you sold ZipFit or Intuition products?

2. I like to think that I'm a fairly aggressive skier who pushes the tongue hard. In the current lasts my shins are prone to shin aka Lange "bang".....can you please clarify what you mean by "If you're prone to shin bang, go wrap. You'll thank me."

3. While there are different derivatives of the ZipFit would you be willing to provide some guidance recommend for a strong, high performance skier who still likes warmth?

4. Finally......it seems that adding an aftermarket product can incrementally stiffen and alter the boot performance. Is this accurate or is this a misnomer? I'm of the school of thought that the structural composition of the boot shell dictates the stiffness and the last can provide some incremental horizontal adjustments. Is this incorrect and if so how would one of the lasts impact the performance......IMHO the Lange RX120 is an appropriate boot for me but can be too soft in warmer weather....

Thanks!!!!

 

[Noodler]

ZipFits are the best cure for shin bang I've ever used. The tongues are incredibly accommodating without losing performance. I have major problems with my right leg and I can barely ski in Intuitions at this point due to the pain from the firmer foam in the higher performance Intuition models (Pro Tongue, Plug, HD Race, etc.).

Keep in mind that most ZipFits are the exact same design with just varying "volume" due to how much OMFit cork compound is placed in the bladders.

 

[Noodler]

Another significant advantage for ZipFit liners is their ability to be fine-tuned via the addition/subtraction of OMFit cork compound.

I always knew this could be done, but had never gone that route until this past weekend. I purchased the ZipFit SpotFit kit which includes some tubes of the material and a plunger to push it into the bladders. I watched videos of the process and read the instructions. I learned about the 3rd chamber that is normally empty; it sits over the sides of the instep. I have low insteps and typically have to resort to buckling tighter to deal with it. I added some OMFit to the 3rd chambers and it is the final piece of "magic" that makes my liners fit like a perfect glove. I also added a bit to the lower portion of the tongues that sit directly on top of my insteps.

I cannot wait to see how these improvements ski. Head has come out with a LiquidFit liner that uses a wax-based fluid that is injected into bladders in their liners. So the idea of an easily customizable liner is gaining traction.

 

[Sidewinder]

I have had 3 sets of Intuitions (all wrap style) and 2 sets of Zip Fits. I currently only have the Zips. IMO they are WAY better on all fronts. I’ve never found them colder than the other liners, I had the worst shin-bang ever in the Pro-Wrap Intuitions (my bony shin formed a pocket but any movement adjacent to the pocket hurt like hell) and there are no mess-ups with mouldings. If Intuitions are moulded perfectly they are good. If not, and you re-mould them, they are roomier (need a thicker sock) and harder. Zip Fits can be moulded every day if you want and I switch them between boots. I’ve never heated my shells, but many a time I’ve heated the liners with a hair dryer at a condo and worn the boots around while eating breakfast, then found them near perfect when heading out on the hill. I realize this is just me - YMMV

 

[Noodler]

So I just finished my first day out with my old ZipFit GARA liners with the added OMFit using the SpotFit system. All I can say is that I'm absolutely ecstatic. I literally skied the entire first half of my day with my boots barely even buckled. I only had enough tension on them to keep them from inadvertently opening. The hold down from the liners alone (in my very tight shells) was all I needed to ski fairly aggressively. After a quick lunch I buckled the ankle buckle a bit tighter and that was it. It's hard to imagine, but the hold down power is even better now that I don't have to crank on the instep buckles. Did I mention that I love these liners!

 

[Ken_R]

The right question is which fitter is the best at making a footbed that works for you. All 3 methods (unweighted, semi-weighted, and fully weighted) can yield a decent footbed, but it most depends on the fitter knowing what they're doing. My personal preference is semi-weighted (done while in a sitting position) as I feel it provides that best of both worlds; a better formed top surface to match the way your foot really is shaped when there's some weight on it, but without so much weight that "bad" things happen regarding the alignment of the foot as the impression is taken.

Mine were done that way and work great.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

I am familiar with Intuition but since reading this. When the time comes that I need new liners, what is the best way to buy Zipfit? Any recommended way to do this ? How critical is the fitting process, good shop, special etc.

 

[Noodler]

I am familiar with Intuition but since reading this. When the time comes that I need new liners, what is the best way to buy Zipfit? Any recommended way to do this ? How critical is the fitting process, good shop, special etc.

I think the biggest caveat in purchasing a ZipFit is being fooled into thinking the liner won't fit in your shell. I've even seen some comments from fitters on this issue that tells me that they're not always willing to put in the work necessary to "introduce" a ZipFit liner to the shell with a proper break-in process. If you're comfortable with some DIY (and maybe some online "coaching") you can go at it alone. I'm on my 6th set of Zips and only the first set was ever done by a fitter (Steve Bagley at Snowbird). My new GARA's could barely get into my Raptor Overkill shells. The bear trap of the boot was spread over an inch apart initially. I skied these new liners this past Saturday and they were money in those shells. It just took some work to get them to the point that they would fit into the shell correctly.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Thanks, think I am a way off on needing new liners but will check out the ZipFits when the time comes.

 

[coops]

I am familiar with Intuition but since reading this. When the time comes that I need new liners, what is the best way to buy Zipfit? Any recommended way to do this ? How critical is the fitting process, good shop, special etc.

I'd say the best thing to do is to do it in resort, first thing in the morning and go ski in them while they're still good and warm to get that omfit goop where it wants to be.
(I'd first heard about Zipfits on the Snowheads ski forum, where CEM of Solutions For Feet is extremely well regarded for boot fitting in the UK - and stocks and fits a lot of zipfits.)

I can recommend Jans at Park City on Park Av, as that's where I got mine fitted to my Hawx 120's.

We were staying at the Doubletree which is as an easy 5 minute stroll to that Jans branch.
I'd heard they could take a while to 'break in' to be as comfortable and excellent as they can be... but from my experience they were fabulous from the get go. I'd 'booked' in for them to be fitted first thing in the morning.
Turned up.
After the chap (sorry, his name escapes me...) checked my shell fit without any liner, he brought a Gara model to test fit. Quick warm up of the liner on hot air blow dryer (like liner dryers) and then into the boot and done up to check for volume etc.
Was pretty clear even to me, that a higher volume model wouldn't be necessary

Then the Zipfit was given a proper heat up - done in the Fischer boot oven, same as Atomics and others in other words for i think 10 mins... certainly long enough to really help get the omfit more mobile.
Shells were not heated, by the way at this point.

1. Liners onto the foot and laces pulled snugly and the velcro strap, and then jam the foot into the shell (the Atomics don't have any awkward edges or ledges so they seem to slide in quite well, no problems).
2. Clips done up quite firmly, not as tight as a foam job (yes, I've 'enjoyed' that before) or a 'mouldable' liner, or an Intuition (yes, i've tried those too!) but much, much tighter then you'll ever need to have them once you go skiing in them,
3. Walk around the shop for a good 10 to 15 minutes. Different from the practice for fitting the other liners, but it would seem to be a good way to get the omfit material moving around as you flex the boot while that omfit is good and hot and therefore more mobile than usual.
4. Pull feet and liners out of shell, pay the price... and walk back to Doubletree in my regular shoes.
5. Dump the shoes etc at hotel, change into the boots and zipfits, and straight off to the slopes which are only 10mins away
6. Ski.
7. Be startled by how good the heel hold is and how something can have such a good firm hold yet be comfortable at the same time. Note, when you put the liner on and snug up the laces you can tell that your foot is already 'held' in place, so the boot shell clips only need to done up just enough to get shell 'engaged' to the liner... plus your heel will be in the shell pocket anyway... so the upshot is very, very light clip tension on those two upper clips - roughly I found an easy one finger latch tension to be plenty.
8. Ski until lunch without any need to faff with clips or unclip for lifts due to pains.
9. At lunch, lift those two upper boot clips, flex forward to open the shell a bit and walk around to the bar etc,
10. After lunch, lean down and do those clips back up with a finger and get back to skiing

I went back a day later to Jans to get the shells refit/moulded as the ankle bones were a bit sore (and also remoulded with those toe booties on to give a touch more room in the toe box) and that was it. Apart from regretting not having done it years ago...

ps A heated boot bag or good hot air blower is great as that'll make that omfit a little more mobile first thing in the morning so it can accommodate any foot changes/swelling due to altitude, drinking or after effects of my DVT/deep vein thrombosis!

 

[Noodler]

After reading the previous post I am reiterating the danger of introducing a brand new ZipFit into a heated shell. If the liner spreads the bear trap and you are not careful to ensure the overlap is maintained properly when buckling the boots, you may inadvertently damage the edges of the shells the are along the overlap. Also, with many shells that are now heat moldable, you also run the risk of having the shell adjust to the liner, instead of the other way around. Please see my previously posted instructions on breaking-in a new ZipFit liner so that it adapts to your foot and the shell.

 

[AmyPJ]

Boot Doc > Zip Fit > Intuition.
The Boot Doc liners are just incredible.

 

[Ulmerhutte]

Boot Doc > Zip Fit > Intuition.
The Boot Doc liners are just incredible.

I have had 2 Strolz foam liners and a Sidas foam liner. All have been disappointing (at least for me). Firstly, there is only one shot at foaming the liner. Get it wrong and, unless the shop is willing to throw away the liner and start again, there is little that can be done to make it right. The options are really limited to shaving the liner and covering that area with something, or pushing out the shell.

Secondly, again in my case, the 2 Strolz liners packed out after about 80 days. I threw away the Sidas liner after one season because it was agony to wear and the shop could not, and would not, fix it. They screwed the foaming by leaving the buckles too loose, to the point where the foam distorted the shell.

All that said, some people have fantastic experiences with foam, but Zipfits for me...

 

[Noodler]

Boot Doc > Zip Fit > Intuition.
The Boot Doc liners are just incredible.

Well those ratings depend on the criteria selected. If it's purely about what's worked best for you, then clearly I cannot argue that. All I'll say is that a ZipFit has a distinct advantage in being able to dynamically adjust to whatever shape your leg/foot is in on any given day. I value that most highly due to continuing challenges with my old ski injury to my leg. There are other liners that use "cork in oil", but they don't have the precise same "recipe" as Sven's OMFit compound that uses a combination of ceramic binders in the cork compound.

I've read good things about the Boot Doc liners. Clearly they seem to be an improvement over the typical foamed liners (due to the better/softer foam used). But I would assume that their lifespan would still be shorter and usually it's difficult, if not impossible, to move a foamed liner between boots (although Phil pulled that off surprisingly with his).

 

[AmyPJ]

You're right, it's definitely subjective. I've had all three and had Zipfits for several years, and vastly prefer the Boot Docs. And I also moved mine from a Head B5 to a Tecnica Mach 1 LV.

 

[Garcia]

Just added (11/20/18) zipfits to my Rozzy Radical WC 130s after using stock liner for 2 years. Went out same day to test. Awesome. Some here have mentioned need for possible adjustments of liner but other than moving my top buckle over one position and tinkering with others I couldn’t be happier. Snug comfortable very responsive. Can’t comment re intuition but buddy loves his. Went with ZF due to prospective life longevity of liner.