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Youth skis - What next after 138 Volkl Gotama Jr?

RNZ

aka Ski Kiwi
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DS has grown out of his current skis. He is 12.5 years old and has recently shot up and is currently 5'1" but a bit of a lightweight, probably around 90 lb give or take a few lbs.

We ski a mixture of West Coast North America and New Zealand, most recently Breckenridge and A-Basin. He's a pretty solid skier for his age. He confidently and safely skis all over the mountain - favourite runs on the most recent trip were 13 Cornices and one of the Alley's (3rd I think) that we skied with @kimmyt . He's a really solid skier and prefers steep bumps and trees and powder. He would spend 90% of his time off-piste and a good proportion of our skiing is early season (January in the Northern Hemisphere and July in NZ).

He is currently on his second pair of volkl mini goats and they have been absolutely fantastic for him and have been a huge confidence booster and allowed him to develop his technique. He has grown out of the last pair and we will need to replace them. What else, other than the mantra jr (or a previous season gotama jr) should we look at? I have had a quick look around but many of the all mountain youth skis (blizzard cochise, atomic bent chetler, line sick day) seem to jump up quite a lot in width which I am not sure if I should worry about. Another option is the Fischer Ranger X youth.

Finally, he likes the wood core + sidewall construction of the mini goats and they have also proved to be very robust. Should we stick with a similar construction or will it not matter?
 

Philpug

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Rossi Smash7 is a real nice ski about 90mm underfoot. Personally, I am nto a fan of the Goat and (now) Mantra jr becuase they are reverse camber and I know some of our local coaches are not either.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Totally agree about the Goat. I saw a nice improvement in my daughter's skiing switching from that to the Fischer Ranger Jr.
 

skibob

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I also find a lot of kid's skis are too stiff. My daughter was having a lot of trouble flexing her skis and finding the radius. She is about the same size as your son. I hand flexed a lot of skis and settled on Elan Pinball Jr for her this year. Technically its a park ski I think. But objectively it fit the bill. Soft flexing (still proportionally stiffer than many adult skis when you consider the weight of the skier), tip/tail rocker/camber underfoot, about 80cm wide I believe.

Its made a huge difference for her this year as she can actually flex the ski and experience what that does for her. Not saying the Pinball is the right ski for your son, but as light as he is, consider flex. The Gotama in fact was one of the only skis close when I hand flexed them, so you've done well so far. Volkl's other kids skis (which she was on the year before) are PLANKS--stiffer than some of my skis and NOT comparatively, absolutely.

Don't know whether you would be up for this, but a lot of adult women's skis could be a great match for him and come in 140-something lengths. Many have gender neutral graphics, but as to whether a 12yr old boy would be bothered that a few people on the mountain would know they are women's skis . . .
 

Superbman

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Although they are getting harder to find…look for a short adult twin tip. My kid spent the last two seasons on a 149cm K2 Sight (and a pair of slalom skis)…we'll be jumping up again next season. the Sight is an adult ski with 85mm waist, rocker camber rocker twin tip. That was a great ski for him, skied it everywhere from parks to glades from Killington to Colorado. Adult level construction, but can be found for 200 bucks. I paired it with a marker squire.
 

Philpug

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I also find a lot of kid's skis are too stiff. My daughter was having a lot of trouble flexing her skis and finding the radius. She is about the same size as your son. I hand flexed a lot of skis and settled on Elan Pinball Jr for her this year. Technically its a park ski I think. But objectively it fit the bill. Soft flexing (still proportionally stiffer than many adult skis when you consider the weight of the skier), tip/tail rocker/camber underfoot, about 80cm wide I believe.

Its made a huge difference for her this year as she can actually flex the ski and experience what that does for her. Not saying the Pinball is the right ski for your son, but as light as he is, consider flex. The Gotama in fact was one of the only skis close when I hand flexed them, so you've done well so far. Volkl's other kids skis (which she was on the year before) are PLANKS--stiffer than some of my skis and NOT comparatively, absolutely.

Don't know whether you would be up for this, but a lot of adult women's skis could be a great match for him and come in 140-something lengths. Many have gender neutral graphics, but as to whether a 12yr old boy would be bothered that a few people on the mountain would know they are women's skis . . .
This is very true that many times junior skis are too stiff, I have seen it especially with smaller sizes, two canses come to mind, the K2 Sheditor 85 in the shortest lengths, and the Rossignol SLj in the 129, both of these skis are stiff enough for an adult to ski, they are planks. I have also seen this problem with shorter womens skis too, because the binding mounting area is the same as the bigger models, manufacturers sometimes do not change the construction layup to make them flex the same for a lighter skier, when looking at sub 150cm skis, each model needs to be looked at individually based on their own patterns, this is even more inportant when there is a system binding on them. Avoid the Squire for lighter skiers, if you must have a Marker, look to the M11.0TC, a much better option. Remember both of these are adult lug only bindings,
 
Thread Starter
TS
RNZ

RNZ

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Thanks for all of your replies. Went in to the one local ski shop today (that also has its ski gear out all year). The new seasons gear is starting to hit the shops now. Rossignol stock won't arrive for a couple of weeks, but they will chase up the smash7 if they haven't ordered it. We are heading away next week where there are a couple of other options to pursue - the fischer rangers I think I can find.

One thing that did pop up today was the Nordica Enforcer S http://www.nordica.com/products/enforcer-s-flat/?type=3630&target=3624&category=3643. The youth enforcer. It doesn't have any metal in it and the dimensions are slightly different, but otherwise construction appears the same as the enforcer - same core etc, so not a Santa Ana. It is definitely considerably lighter and softer flexing than the adult version. Initial thoughts are not to consider it - but this may be coloured by my demo day on the enforcer and had a very similar experience to @kimmyt (we talked about it on the chairlift ride at A-Basin) - the angels didn't sing as I sort of expected them to. I wonder given that junior really likes tight trees, steeps and bumps that the Enforcer S wouldn't be ideal. (I ended up with RMU apostles).

Bindings - will be junior bindings, he has small feet so still very much still in kids boots.
 

Philpug

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The youth Enforcer is the same ski as the current Blizzard Cochise Jr and the outgoing Nordica El Capo Jr, very good junior skis. If he is still in a junior binding, look to the Rossi Axium 7 or 10, Tyrolia 7.5 or Salomon Z7 or 10, all are A/C designs, meaning they will accomodate aa Adult and Child lug boot.
 

Andy Carey

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My grandson (same age & size of your son) wanted twin tips, I talked him into a powder ski; I bought him the 4FNT YLE Coyotes--boy did his off piste and tree skiing take off and he started doing lots of skiing backward and 5-6 linked rotations on the piste and skiing double black diamond moguls LOL I have no idea who it compares to other kids skis. My granddaugher (2- years younger, and lighter) has the Gotama Jrs but I haven't watched her ski except in pictures in deep off-piste powder.
 

Xela

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I just got my daughter (same) age a pair of Head Ethan Too skis in 151cm. She used the 141s last year and did well with them. She's slightly shorter and much lighter than your son. She does, however, ski at a high (competitive) level. She also has small feet.
 
Thread Starter
TS
RNZ

RNZ

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Thanks all for your advice and feedback. Phil the binding info is really useful as I would like to get a binding that will take adult as well as junior boots just in case his feet grow dramatically.

We have looked at a couple of the shops most likely to have something appropriate and have seen and touched the enforcer, fischer ranger and the cochise. Rossi and volkl hadn't delivered their stock when we went in. The guy who stocks rossi doesn't think that they have ordered the smash but will get hold of them if we go that route (the market is minuscule here, but it does mean that access to importers is also easy).

We have decided to wait for now. The season here is not looking promising - we went up to our bach (cabin) in the mountains the week before last and there was no hint of snow except in the high alpine areas and the seasonal outlook is pretty rubbish. Also as DS is playing football (soccer) until mid August the first opportunity he will get to ski will be the July school holidays. Given that he seems to grow centimetres every night at the moment I'd rather wait until closer to the season to see where he is at height-wise. Trying to walk the tricky tight-rope of not going too long (he won't put on any weight, if anything he will lose weight due to the amount of activity he is doing) and not buying something that he grows out of before he skis. (Hopefully I can combine some work trips with some early season skiing - especially since some colleagues also ski).
 
Thread Starter
TS
RNZ

RNZ

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Thought I'd come back and update where we ended up. Our son continued to grow up at a very steady rate. We waited until August when we had to do something as we were squeezing in some domestic skiing. There are very limited options for junior off-piste all mountain skis so the rossi smash 7, the head Ethan too and the elan pinball were all models that are / were not available here.

We could get Cochise / enforcer in a 150, but with the rate that he was and is growing we felt that he would outgrow a 150 very quickly. So the final result was a Fisher ranger in a 160.

Then his feet grew just enough to need new boots, and he has small feet for his size and wide feet, so added a pair of dalbello scorpion 80's.

Fast forward to January, spent three weeks at Red Mountain and the choices proved perfect for him. His skiing was looking really good.

So thank you all for sharing your experiences and advice. It helped make the decision.
 

jmclarnon

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This is very true that many times junior skis are too stiff, I have seen it especially with smaller sizes, two canses come to mind, the K2 Sheditor 85 in the shortest lengths, and the Rossignol SLj in the 129, both of these skis are stiff enough for an adult to ski, they are planks. I have also seen this problem with shorter womens skis too, because the binding mounting area is the same as the bigger models, manufacturers sometimes do not change the construction layup to make them flex the same for a lighter skier, when looking at sub 150cm skis, each model needs to be looked at individually based on their own patterns, this is even more inportant when there is a system binding on them. Avoid the Squire for lighter skiers, if you must have a Marker, look to the M11.0TC, a much better option. Remember both of these are adult lug only bindings,

I just picked up a new pair of ski's for my daughter. She's 4 foot 9, about 75 lbs. Why the aversion to the squire for lighter skiers? I have one sitting around, so I was hoping to use it, but not opposed to picking up another binding.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Squires can be harder to step into, but it's not impossible. My 12 yo has been using them for a few years with no issues and she's no hulk of a person.
 

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