You turn the skis - vs - The skis turn you

[Steve]

Yes I agree. However being one who couldn't learn visually I'm much more careful to find ways to explain things. Outside, inside - useless. Downhill - useful.

Flex, extend - hard to understand. Tall, short - easy to understand.

Some students need to be told what to do for a desired outcome. Some only need to be shown. That's my experience anyway.

 

[Doby Man]

@Steve, those are good points. Though, somehow I do not see LF as having any similar type of problem with communicating the necessities to students. She probably has as many ways to say things than anyone on here. Am sure you’re aware she has written a ton of really good MA’s on here with the diligence of a goat, the patience of a saint and could probably get a squirrel with ptsd to eat out of her hand. It does bring up a point, though, about balancing awareness of special needs and the aspect of inclusivity with effective group function. That may be one of the biggest challenges an instructor may ever have. While obviously there is a wide range of developmental value a student will get out of a class, many elements of which are the separate responsibility of the student and the instructor, sometimes a class takes on a life of its own in a way that a good instructor will recognize and foster (to some degree). There is always going to be that 10-20% of students that stand in the back of class and be disconnected for a possible plethora of reasons for which a one and done instructor will be in no position to grasp in any helpful way. That said, there may be no simpler alternatives to either the term parallel or perpendicular, they are not really "specialized" terms and are as basic as they can get for which visual demo is the only alternative. That is not to say that I am unsympathetic. I was once speaking to a psychiatric specialist who used the term “paranoid” in reference to me. But, because I did not understand what the word meant, I felt immediately threatened and got away as fast as possible by jumping out of the window.

 

[HardDaysNight]

If the word “parallel” induces panic in your soul, perhaps skiing isn’t for you. (Sorry, just being a bit facetious.)

 

[Steve]

I was once speaking to a psychiatric specialist who used the term “paranoid” in reference to me. But, because I did not understand what the word meant, I felt immediately threatened and got away as fast as possible by jumping out of the window.[/USER]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not actually out to get you.

Even paranoids have real enemies after all!


I told my psychiatrist that I was hearing voices once. He replied "you don't have a psychiatrist!"

 

[Uke]

It's not a question of if I'm paranoid. It's am I paranoid enough?

 

[4ster]

But, because I did not understand what the word meant, I felt immediately threatened and got away as fast as possible by jumping out of the window.

 

[no edge]

Late to the thread, but I like to steer. I also like to carve. Even when I park and ride the carved turn I still steer subtly. The skier uses the tool and never really lets the ski do all of the work.

But I love steering

 

[cantunamunch]

I think ski drifting competitions should be a thing.

 

[karlo]

"Explanation of The Work Image:
Instruction of How to Wear a Jacket. (Five steps)
Preparation: Hold the jacket.
1.Use the right hand to hold the collar. Reach the left arm into the left sleeve.
2.Move the right hand from the collar to the right armhole. (With the help of left hand)
3.Hold the collar with left hand. Reach the right arm into the right sleeve. (Lean leftward a bit)
4.Adjust the clothes to dress appropriately.
Cautions: pay attention to the position of the elbows."

"Two Series of Five Steps of Wearing Clothes", Geng Jianyi, 1991

Do we determine how to put our jacket on, in the most efficient manner? Or, does the jacket determine how we put it on?

And, when instructing, what is really needed?

Edit: oh, might as well throw this into the brewing pot, a theory of how we learn.

https://nyti.ms/2QOjKp3

 

[Kneale Brownson]

I think ski drifting competitions should be a thing.

I attended a PSIA clinic several years ago where the examiner had us doing stivots all over the place.

 

[cantunamunch]

I attended a PSIA clinic several years ago where the examiner had us doing stivots all over the place.

Yes, now take that and make it a judged comp with a marked course (and no bumps). Fun?

It's very much a thing with cars.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Those guys in cars are drifting their tails without heel-pushing.
Looks like it's like front inside tire slowing.

 

[cantunamunch]

Those guys in cars are drifting their tails without heel-pushing.
Looks like it's like front inside tire slowing.

There's a fair bit that goes into it, including very finessed throttle management - which is sort of heel pushing analogous.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Can they control each wheel's revolutions independently?

 

[cantunamunch]

Can they control each wheel's revolutions independently?

No. But skiers can heel push simultaneously (and every hockey stop proves it).

 

[markojp]

Yes, now take that and make it a judged comp with a marked course (and no bumps). Fun?

I think they call it giant slalom...

 

[T-Square]

I attended a PSIA clinic several years ago where the examiner had us doing stivots all over the place.

I too, was in a clinic at Breckinridge where we were shown and played with stivots. Man they were fun! Great exercise in controlling edges. It also increases a skiers versatility. I use them now with students for those reasons. I also play with them just for the pure fun of it.

Learning how to slide sideways while changing direction then engaging into a carved turn really helps students feel what edge engagement is.

 

[Monster]

Those guys in cars are drifting their tails without heel-pushing.
Looks like it's like front inside tire slowing.

There may be some toe on brake heel pushing on gas shifting into the corner though. . .

 

[Seldomski]

Maybe I missed it...

 

[Josh Matta]

Can they control each wheel's revolutions independently?

yeah no, until we have an electric car with a speed controller on each wheel that would be impossible.


You dont even need to heel toe shift mid corner to drift, most drifting is accomplished VIA either unweighting the rear end on turn entry, or using the throttle to over drive the rear wheels and make the loose lateral grip.

Front wheel drives can drift using unweighting, and or E brake, or very fancy Differential that let the car pull it self though the turns.

AWD can drift using all of the above

RWD can drift using all of the above but unless its really tight E brake is almost never needed.

one common misconception is that drifting is purely for show, even F1 car drift, you just cant see it from an outside view. All rubber tires tend to grip better at slight to moderate slip angle. Skis never grip better at a moderate slip angle.

again I think it goes to show that despite both taking place in the same physical world comparing cars to skiing does nt really work out.