XC - Skating is hard

[Erik Timmerman]

So I decided I need to sweat more this winter if I want any fitness when it's time for bikes again. I went to the Nordic Barn in Stowe and picked up a pair of skate skis 191 Fischer RCS stiff and a pair of boots and poles. I got a few pointers from friends that I know XC ski and went out to try it. Of course first I had to figure out how to dress. A mix of DH MTB pants and roadie cycling tops seemed good enough. Went up to the XC center thinking I'd ski for an hour or so.

My next hurdle was putting the skis on. I had a hard time with that. It's sort of like trying to use clipless pedals for the first time when you are not really sure where the cleats are on your foot. I finally got them on and almost fell right away. Survived that and started to go. It took me about 30' of "skating" to re-set my goals for that session. A few laps around the XC practice loop would suit me fine. Feeling like Bambi on the frozen pond I managed one lap with the mildest uphill and down. Setting out for the 2nd lap I felt a little more surefooted and tried to move a little more. I made it about 30 feet before I took my first fall and.. ripped the binding apart on my right ski. So my first excursion lasted about 10 minutes. I have a new binding now and hope to try it again on Friday.

 

[scott43]

Attaboy!!

 

[Mike King]

It is, IMHO, a different sport...

 

[TrueNorth]

Next time you go, leave the poles behind and practice pushing off and gliding as far as you can balanced on one ski, then push off and glide on the other ski, etc. To do this you need to actively transfer your weight onto the gliding ski and keep your center of mass balanced over top of it. This is really the fundamental skill for beginning skate skiing.

Beginners have a tendency to keep their center of mass between the skis, which result in kind of an awkward waddle from ski to ski without much gliding.

 

[Tom K.]

You nailed it with the title "skating is hard".

1. Take a lesson. Even just one. SO worthwhile.

2. Avoid hills until your flat technique is pretty solid.

3. Enjoy the ride. If the bug "bites" you, it's a sport that you will noticeably improve at for 10 years.

 

[pchewn]

There are several gaits for skating depending on speed, hill incline, etc.

Double-pole on each stride, alternating stride double-pole (right or left justified), right-pole first staggered stride, left-pole first.

On an inclined traverse you can also do a glide on the uphill ski and repeated strides using only the downhill ski for propulsion.

The word salad descriptions above don't do them justice. I use these strides on alpine skis. It's a matter of rhythm, momentum for glide, balance, and being on the proper edge (plus pole technique). Yep, it's hard.

See some gaits here:

 

[tch]

Congratulations on your new passion! Actually, I’m gonna say it ain’t that hard. The comments above are good and should get you going. Personally, I think skating is an activity that yields well to technique— and with some study that comes quickly. The learning curve to moderate competence is steep but short. You will be better next time and better again the next time. Of course you can work hard if you start pushing it, but I can skate pretty fast on the flats while still just swinging it easy — and I’m no Olympic athlete.

 

[cantunamunch]

On a meta level, if it was easy, it would have been 'discovered' by the Nords instead of Bill Koch - and pre-banned in classic races.

On a practical long term gear level, try to have a pair of skis that is supple enough to work on just-set snowplow throw - and every road median will be your play alley.

#gravelskateski
#goateesstronglyencouraged

 

[KevinF]

So... you’re not entering the Derby this year?

 

[Vcize]

Is it noticeably different than skating on downhill skis? Like if someone skates around in the flat areas while downhill skiing is that going to transfer reasonably, or are we going to be falling and struggling like in the OP?

 

[scott43]

Is it noticeably different than skating on downhill skis? Like if someone skates around in the flat areas while downhill skiing is that going to transfer reasonably, or are we going to be falling and struggling like in the OP?

Same technique in a macro way.. But the gear is different..and a lot lighter. The skis hang, although not as much as classic skis, so you have to be aware of dragging the tails. There are no steel edges so you can't edge nearly as hard. The poles are longer which helps you go faster but..they're longer. And turning at speed is more of a step affair..you don't flex the ski and carve or anything like that. And if you crash, the bindings don't release, you just blow them up. And then there's "skating"...there are 4 or 5 different strides that you can take depending on your situation..double-pole plant per stride..double-pole plant every other stride..offset pole plants every stride..offset pole plants every other stride..just pole plants..just skating. Once you do them it's pretty obvious what you're doing..but not always easy to describe. But I would say..for most people..there's a bit of a learning curve simply because the ski doesn't respond the way an alpine ski does. The "edges" make you slip out when you don't expect it..learning the foot position so as not to drag or cross skis..the weight difference.. I actually use the outside edge sometimes to push against. Just depends on situation.

 

[cantunamunch]

Is it noticeably different than skating on downhill skis? Like if someone skates around in the flat areas while downhill skiing is that going to transfer reasonably, or are we going to be falling and struggling like in the OP?

Noticeably?

The platform is narrower (45-50mm) and there are no steel edges. Stepping into the binding is different - as OP has mentioned - since you can't see either of the bars as you're stepping in. The boots are far less supportive so you have to stack your body weight onto the new ski much more accurately. The heels are free so you have to control the ski with your toe as you set down. The poles have a far greater range of action - about 3x the swing range of alpine poles.

Sure, the essence of the motion is the same - but the marginal differences are huge. Transferring alpine skate skills onto XC skate gear is like gluing a Mr. Yuk sticker onto a 3x5 card.

EDIT: Hah! Cross post.

 

[martyg]

A good day on skaters makes me forget all about alpine skiing. Skating will also do wonders to hone your alpine abilities. Exact same fundamentals, but the feedback on skaters is so much more profound. You balance has to be internal, not supplied by an outside force.

One of our Nordic areas (the only one that I go to because it is canine friendly) sits on a large lake. Soon, we get to crust cruising season. During the day, the snow on the lake gets slushy. At night, it freezes hard. In the AM it is one, huge, perfectly groomed skating lane. It is so fast, that my canine gets gassed, and he is a well conditioned upland hunting dog.

If you haven't, West Yellowstone in April is amazing. Everyone has gone home. The crust cruising in the park is amazing in the AM. They also plow the road. It is closed to vehicular traffic, but open to bikes. The fly fishing can be superb.

This was shot in mid-December. SW CO.

 

[scott43]

I don't go much anymore..but I'd love to get my kids into Biathlon..it's a great combo sport..make'em work hard on the skiing..then they get to shoot stuff as a reward..

 

[scott43]

The boots are far less supportive so you have to stack your body weight onto the new ski much more accurately. The heels are free so you have to control the ski with your toe as you set down.

Exact same fundamentals, but the feedback on skaters is so much more profound. You balance has to be internal, not supplied by an outside force.

These are two really good quotes. More delicate and precise movements..more aware of balance..no hard edging.

 

[cantunamunch]

In other news, I get thrown by alpinespeak 'Ski from the feet/ankles' - obviously it doesn't mean what it self-evidently means in XC .

 

[Scruffy]

A started in XC, and sometimes I'd rather do that than alpine, just depends on my mood, and the snow conditions.

Here's a good video with an intro to all the different techniques you can apply with skate skis.

 

[Tony S]

@Erik Timmerman , let's take @KevinF out on the trails and make an afternoon of it. I promise I will not sic "Fifty K Wendy" on you.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Days are getting longer Tony. It would be pretty easy to do that after real skiing.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Is it noticeably different than skating on downhill skis? Like if someone skates around in the flat areas while downhill skiing is that going to transfer reasonably, or are we going to be falling and struggling like in the OP?

It's probably not that different, but it sure feels different. I think the main difference I feel is the lack of steel edges. They just feel so squirrely. Probably just need to commit more to balance directly over that foot. I consider myself to be pretty good at skating on alpine skis. A lot of our BC skiing here involves a long skate at the end. It's funny how all of those different gaits are things that I access in my skating. Wether going a longer distance up a hill down a hill or on a sidehill, trying to speed up, slowing down to recover. I probably don't do all of them, but for sure a lot of them.

Yesterday they said the snow was not very good, but that it would be better once I got away from the XC Center and gained a bit of elevation. Since I never made it that far, I don't know. I have a lesson until 4 tomorrow, but am going to bring my stuff and try to at least loop the practice loop a few times before dark.