Want To Buy WTB: Mogul/bump/freestyle skis (used)

[jack97]

Holy cow those are cheap!! Jack, I know you previously recommended the softer skis or me (Twisters, 244s, Originators). Do you (or anyone else for that matter; @thomas I think you were looking into getting some earlier this year) have an idea about whether the Hart Boss would be good for me (I'm pretty light, 5'11", 160lbs), or would they be too stiff?

The Boss may be worth the risk given the price. There are two Hart vendors, one in the US and the other in Canada, there was an agreement to only sell in their respective countries but that may be crumbling given US Hart may go out of or has gone out of business. So from the US perspective , not much is known by how the Canadian Hart skis. However a couple months back they did have a clearance sale of the regular mogul version, close to the same dimensions used by competition level skiers. Usually when a vendor sells a "lighter", that's a sign that the regular model may be too stiff for aspiring bumpers or to those who don't have the body weight to flex the ski. For example, IDone from Japan sells a lighter version for junior level bumps skiers who are going up the competition ranks.

If I was your height, weight and felt the Volkl Wall beat beats me up in the bumps, I would consider the Boss. The price minimizes the risk of the unknown and you can find SPX, Z12 or STH 12 bindings for less than $130, the hard part is finding brakes at 90 mm or less. ,

 

[SSSdave]

Didn't look at the details but after a wee bit of web searching, find out what is going on here. Might be old dated stale nothing but then, your prayers may have been answered if you at least phone the place up. Not everything gets advertised on the Internet, especially gear in small shops:

https://myemail.constantcontact.com...t-com.html?soid=1101664669287&aid=pjDmT8awXhE

Well poked about some more and just the 244 @173cm left.
https://suburbanskiandbike.com/Skis-Mogul-Skis/

 

[CS2-6]

The Boss

Might be too good to be true. I looks like The Boss is only available in 147 and 155cm.

you can find SPX, Z12 or STH 12 bindings for less than $130, the hard part is finding brakes at 90 mm or less. ,

If used mogul skis are suspect, am I right to assume that used bindings (especially parky bindings like Pivots or FKS) are equally risky?

web searching

Thanks!! Clearly, your google powers far exceed my own.

 

[jack97]

Might be too good to be true. I looks like The Boss is only available in 147 and 155cm.

If used mogul skis are suspect, am I right to assume that used bindings (especially parky bindings like Pivots or FKS) are equally risky?

This has been the driest market for mogul skis I've seen in 9 years. Bindings are a different matter, lots of them. Pivot was a good binding but get abused in the park and trees. I rather get new bindings with the market so good and the prices so cheap.

BTW, Pivot was replaced by the SPX, Look and Rossi makes them but calls them differently. The Sallys, Z12 and STH are good. They each have good elastivity in the toe piece.

 

[Wendy]

BTW, Pivot was replaced by the SPX, Look and Rossi makes them but calls them differently.

????? The Pivot and SPX are 2 different bindings, manufactured by Look only. I’ve been on the Manufacture’s site, so unless I am being profoundly stupid (which is entirely possible), your statement is incorrect.

@CS2-6 , if you don’t mind me asking, what’s your budget for skis/bindings? This may be helpful to those searching for you.

 

[Philpug]

and trees. I rather get new bindings with the market so good and the prices so cheap.

BTW, Pivot was replaced by the SPX, Look and Rossi makes them but calls them differently. The Sallys, Z12 and STH are good. They each have good elastivity in the toe piece.

I think you might be mistaken here. The Pivot was not replaced by the SPX, while they share toes, the heels are indeed very different and both are currently in the line. Rossignol used to make the FKS but they no longer market bindings under the Rossignol brand name. The Pivots are the choice of bindings for mogul skiers for their short mount distance and low rotation weight. I am not sure I would put any adult looking for performance in a binding on a Z12..STH12 maybe but not a regular Z.

 

[jack97]

????? The Pivot and SPX are 2 different bindings, manufactured by Look only. I’ve been on the Manufacture’s site, so unless I am being profoundly stupid (which is entirely possible), your statement is incorrect.

I think you might be mistaken here. The Pivot was not replaced by the SPX, while they share toes, the heels are indeed very different and both are currently in the line. Rossignol used to make the FKS but they no longer market bindings under the Rossignol brand name. The Pivots are the choice of bindings for mogul skiers for their short mount distance and low rotation weight. I am not sure I would put any adult looking for performance in a binding on a Z12..STH12 maybe but not a regular Z.

SPX is the "next generation" to the Pivots, Look manufacture them and Rossi re branded them. Hence, no new Pivots are presently made, past season or two, there were good deals for obsoleted and old but never mounted Pivots. As for the SPX, the toe piece is the same, the heel is lighter and clicks out easier. And as for the Look SPX to Rossi rebranding, they are called the Axial 3.

And yet.... as for the Z12, the toe piece is the key because of the elastic travel. For the non heavy set skiers and who don't huck off mini cliffs, the heel piece holds up. The more this binding gather a bad rep, the better the deals will be. And yes, the difference between a Z12 to the STH12 is the heel, toes are the same.

 

[KingGrump]

And yet.... as for the Z12, the toe piece is the key because of the elastic travel. For the non heavy set skiers and who don't huck off mini cliffs, the heel piece holds up. The more this binding gather a bad rep, the better the deals will be. And yes, the difference between a Z12 to the STH12 is the heel, toes are the same.

My opinion on the Z12 differs from you due to my experience. Mamie experienced a heel track failure on a Z10 binding. She is 5'/1", 120#. Non cliff hucking senior citizen. Heel track failure occurred in Rasta Chute at the Bird. I examined all the Z10/12 bindings in my extended family after the failure. All six pairs show signs of cracking on the heel tracks. And I mean every one of them. The Z10 and Z12 shared the heel track design and in material construction.

 

[jack97]

........ manufactured by Look only.......

This industry as well as others rebrand a product by placing there logos on them. Below, the said Sally Z12 but with Atomic labels placed.

As for others, please say more bad things about these bindings.

 

[Wade]

SPX is the "next generation" to the Pivots, Look manufacture them and Rossi re branded them. Hence, no new Pivots are presently made, past season or two, there were good deals for obsoleted and old but never mounted Pivots. As for the SPX, the toe piece is the same, the heel is lighter and clicks out easier. And as for the Look SPX to Rossi rebranding, they are called the Axial 3.

You may want to take a look at Look's website, or one of the many retailers who are selling 18/19 Pivots.

 

[jack97]

My opinion on the Z12 differs from you due to my experience. Mamie experienced a heel track failure on a Z10 binding. She is 5'/1", 120#. Non cliff hucking senior citizen. Heel track failure occurred in Rasta Chute at the Bird. I examined all the Z10/12 bindings in my extended family after the failure. All six pairs show signs of cracking on the heel tracks. And I mean every one of them. The Z10 and Z12 shared the heel track design and in material construction.

yep that's the story, heel has been the weakness. I have them mounted on two of my mogul skis, one on my every day ski for the past two seasons and another for a soon to be every day. No problems yet. It could be that my mounts are on a narrow ski.

 

[jack97]

You may want to take a look at Look's website, or one of the many retailers who are selling 18/19 Pivots.

my bad..... I always get the Pivots mixed up with the PX, its the PX that got a product refreshed to the SPX.

 

[KingGrump]

yep that's the story, heel has been the weakness. I have them mounted on two of my mogul skis, one on my every day ski for the past two seasons and another for a soon to be every day. No problems yet. It could be that my mounts are on a narrow ski.

All the bindings with the cracked heel tracks were on 88s. We do most of our skiing out west, 88 is about as narrow as we go. Perhaps that is not narrow enough. They were fine until they are not.

If you are happy with them. Good for you. Count yourself lucky and go for it. .
For me, no thanks. Or more like "Never Again." Once bitten, twice shy.

 

[jack97]

All the bindings with the cracked heel tracks were on 88s. We do most of our skiing out west, 88 is about as narrow as we go. Perhaps that is not narrow enough. They were fine until they are not.

haha.... I consider 88s as fat, btw sorry to hear about the cracks. My mogul skis have 63 mm waist.

 

[Philpug]

@Jack skis while the Z12 might be fine on a low to mid level recreational ski, it just cannot hold up to the rigors of a competition mogul skier. Go to any top level mogul camp or competition and you will not see any Z12's on any athlete much over 100lb, but you will see Pivot 12's on a significant amount of skis at every level of athlete.

Salomon/Atomic has also abandoned the Z12 heel design on all but their entry level package skis and have gone with a STH2 derived heel. The Z toe also is prone to slingshot releases, if you hold open one wing, you will see that the opposite wing has no tension on it, in extreme lateral shock, I have experiences the boot shoot from one side out the other, something that I have not experienced on other bindings. The STH12 toe is not the same as the Z12 toe, it does have a wider solid AFD which actually creates a more solid interface than the smaller sliding AFD of the regular Z toe.

 

[Tricia]

Too good to be true I guess...

Thanks! I hadn't seen that thread, but I'll definitely check them out.


Thanks for the heads up. I've demoed two sets of mogul skis in my life: Volkl Wall Mogul and 4FRNT Originator. The Volkls beat the living tar outta me. The Originators felt great, even though they were too long for me (181cm).

Finally! I'd been checking that site two to three times a week until I went out of town a few days ago.

I am jealous. I'm lusting for a set of Twisters, 244s, or Originators.

Holy cow those are cheap!! Jack, I know you previously recommended the softer skis or me (Twisters, 244s, Originators). Do you (or anyone else for that matter; @thomas I think you were looking into getting some earlier this year) have an idea about whether the Hart Boss would be good for me (I'm pretty light, 5'11", 160lbs), or would they be too stiff?

@Philpug knows a lot about those skis.

 

[Philpug]

Here you go..you want a deal? https://reno.craigslist.org/spo/d/167-rossignol-world-cup/6718963923.html

This 167 junior GS ski is very similar to a modern mogul ski...combinded that these have Pivot 12's on theme...for $70.00. Buy these, remove the race plate, flat mount the binding and for less than half the cost of the bindings you have a very viable mogul set up. I was going to buy these just for the bindings but I already have this combo. The only other change I would make is to swap out the small AFD for the newer wide platform one.

 

[skix]

This industry as well as others rebrand a product by placing there logos on them. Below, the said Sally Z12 but with Atomic labels placed.

As for others, please say more bad things about these bindings.

Those look to be the same bindings I had on my pair of 2013 Atomic Rituals bought as used demos from Powder7. Got a year out of them before the heel track failed when I hit a rock while edged in a turn.



Edited to add that Powder7 replaced the bindings for free after the failure.

 

[Philpug]

Those look to be the same bindings I had on my pair of 2013 Atomic Rituals bought as used demos from Powder7. Got a year out of them before the heel track failed when I hit a rock while edged in a turn.

View attachment 57258

Edited to add that Powder7 replaced the bindings for free after the failure.

These are the demo bindings that gave demo bindings a bad name. Heavy, disconnected,lots of delta and sloppy.