Philpug

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Is there more equipment domination in a sport than there is in mogul skiing? IDone skis, Look Pivot bindings and Full Tilt boots. Yes, there are some Shaman, Rossignol and Hart skis, some occasional overlap boots but almost every competitor is running Look Pivots.
 

DanoT

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Interesting that the Full Till boot is based on the Raichle Flexon tongue circa 1980. And the design for the Look Pivot goes back to the Look-Nevada turntable heel from the 1960s. It just goes to show, if you got something good, then stick with it.
 

Noodler

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Is there more equipment domination in a sport than there is in mogul skiing? IDone skis, Look Pivot bindings and Full Tilt boots. Yes, there are some Shaman, Rossignol and Hart skis, some occasional overlap boots but almost every competitor is running Look Pivots.
Interesting timing on this post. I was just watching my recording of the latest dual moguls comp and noticing all the skiers on the IDone skis and Look bindings. I checked out the IDoneUSA web site and saw that they do a few other skis beyond the competition mogul stuff. Has anyone on the forum skied any of these? I see that @Wendy put up a nice pic of hers. What's the feedback on these sticks?
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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Interesting timing on this post. I was just watching my recording of the latest dual moguls comp and noticing all the skiers on the IDone skis and Look bindings. I checked out the IDoneUSA web site and saw that they do a few other skis beyond the competition mogul stuff. Has anyone on the forum skied any of these? I see that @Wendy put up a nice pic of hers. What's the feedback on these sticks?
They are THE reference for moguls skis...our feedback is irrelevant.
 

James

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IMG_4973.JPG

I tried the Shaman mogul ski last year. It's Finnish made in Eastern Europe I believe. I skied the long one, like 176/8. Supposedly it's the same thing the wcuppers use who are on it. Holy crap, it basically demands you ski a direct line, aka zipperline, in the bumps. If you do, it's oddly forgiving. Even friendly. If you don't, it's amazingly punishing. It has a smooth, soft, but firm spring to it that propels you down the fall line. Has the most camber of any ski I've been on in a long, long time.

I had intended to take it to Stowe for the gathering but forgot to load it in the car. Thank god.

On a firmed groomer surface it basically refuses to make a normal short turn. It's like a 4wd truck with the hubs locked in a dry parking lot. It starts bucking. For short turns you pretty much need to keep the tips in the fall line.

It makes big turns though and has quite a nice feel with the kevlar layup. I'd love to see them make a regular ski with their construction method as I think they're on to something.

It's available at Forerunner ski shop in Killington. If you're a bumper I'd definitely recommend trying it and no warning needed. If not, one might want to try the shorter one, 173 I think. If you try the longer one tread very, very carefully at first. It really is not a ski for a casual round line in bumps. It simply won't do it without a huge fight that at some point, possibly within two turns, you will lose.
 
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n black

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I would love to demo a pair of IDone bump skis. My days of skiing full days in the bumps are long behind me, but I still like to pretend I can still run the zipperline and will spend a couple of runs there each day (now, if there's powder, that's a totally different story!).

I used to have a set of Hart mogul skis from the early 90s when I dabbled in mogul competitions. That was a fun time, and it'd be interesting to see how things have evolved in the 25 years since.
 

jack97

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Is there more equipment domination in a sport than there is in mogul skiing? IDone skis, Look Pivot bindings and Full Tilt boots. Yes, there are some Shaman, Rossignol and Hart skis, some occasional overlap boots but almost every competitor is running Look Pivots.
The hardgoods listed serves a functional purpose. Look bindings has elastic travel which prevents a pre release when hitting or landing hard. Full Tilt has the tongue which can absorb the bump when the ankles needs to flex. Never skied a IDone but I assume the flex pattern is optimum for skiing a direct line.

IMO, the most important factor that mogul skiers look for is how does the hardgoods help them achieve better technique. Trying a new ski or boot for the feel of a new sensation or because its the "current generation" is somewhat irrelevant.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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The hardgoods listed serves a functional purpose. Look bindings has elastic travel which prevents a pre release when hitting or landing hard. Full Tilt has the tongue which can absorb the bump when the ankles needs to flex. Never skied a IDone but I assume the flex pattern is optimum for skiing a direct line.

IMO, the most important factor that mogul skiers look for is how does the hardgoods help them achieve better techniques. Trying a new ski or boot for the feel of a new sensation or because its the "current generation" is somewhat irrelevant.
I will add with the Pivot is the low rotation weight and the short mount distance.
 

Noodler

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So did Patrick Deneen switch boots to Full Tilt? I remember him skiing in WC 150 flex Langes (or something like that). Did he really go to the "dark side"? ;)
 

James

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The Looks make sense, probably the full tilts.
Racing of all forms, esp skiing, is filled with people just using what one is "supposed to use". It's a culture. At some point somebody does something different and has success and everyone reevaluates. There's no reason some other manufacturer can't make a mogul ski and take serious market share. hart has done just about everything possible to drive their brand into the ocean.
 

Bill Talbot

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Is there more equipment domination in a sport than there is in mogul skiing? IDone skis, Look Pivot bindings and Full Tilt boots. Yes, there are some Shaman, Rossignol and Hart skis, some occasional overlap boots but almost every competitor is running Look Pivots.
Well they damn well better be Forza Pivots!!! :D
 

jack97

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The Looks make sense, probably the full tilts.
Racing of all forms, esp skiing, is filled with people just using what one is "supposed to use". It's a culture. At some point somebody does something different and has success and everyone reevaluates. There's no reason some other manufacturer can't make a mogul ski and take serious market share. hart has done just about everything possible to drive their brand into the ocean.
Mogul skis have a flex pattern that skiers gravitate toward to ensure their technique. That said, once they find it, its doesn't make sense to shop around. In addition, what IDone and Hart (Japan) does is they offer various levels of stiffness so that young and developing skiers who don't have the weight to bend the ski can start developing the techniques at an earlier age. So some form of brand loyalty is instill in this process.

The other point is just because a company can make mogul skis doesn't mean they can make a profit from it. 4FRNT manufactured the "Originator" , a mogul ski for one season and stopped afterwards. Faction just introduced the "Mogul" this year, I question whether they will sell it next season. IMO, they need to generate a buzz in the freestyle scene. Hart (USA) did this but F'ed up other stuff.
 

CS2-6

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Not only do IDone and Hart dominate the ski representation on the feet of the World Cuppers, but the Twisters (RIP) and K2 Cheeseburgers dominate at the recreational level. Even more surprising to me is the Full Tilts and Pivots are the go-to recommendation for mere mortal mogulers as well as the pros (and park rats).

Pivot engineering circa 1960s
Full Tilts engineering circa 1980s
Bump skis (all brands) engineering circa 1990s

Maybe bumpers just don't know how to get with the times.
 

Ross Biff

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The hardgoods listed serves a functional purpose. Look bindings has elastic travel which prevents a pre release when hitting or landing hard. Full Tilt has the tongue which can absorb the bump when the ankles needs to flex. Never skied a IDone but I assume the flex pattern is optimum for skiing a direct line.

IMO, the most important factor that mogul skiers look for is how does the hardgoods help them achieve better technique. Trying a new ski or boot for the feel of a new sensation or because its the "current generation" is somewhat irrelevant.
You need a set- up which let's you do the pointless wiggly- wiggly, judge- impressing, pretend- that- I'm actually- turning bit after landing the last air;)!
 

RickyG

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Gang, I'll be the first one to be disappointed as to how the original Hot Dogging/Freestyle world has changed. In some ways I understand because the "free" had to be put aside to make the events judge able. One of my favorite quotes is from Ann Betell (sp sorry!) "I won and I still don't know what the judges are looking for". Now that said I've spent a lot of time on bump skis, everything from the original Winter Heat, every generation of THE Ski, every generation of RBL, Dynastar Vertical Assalt, Salomon Super Force 9 S3...and others. To me these are light quick flickable tools that are a hoot any where on the mountain. I keep experimenting with "new school" skis and I still walk by my Super Forces and think I really need to tune them. Other points...isn't there a US Ski Team equipment pool that goes to some length to explain the myopia of equipment. Also from my days "doggin" your pier group can get to you, their winning your not...must be the equipment. As far as binding and the Look monopoly I must do some home work. The early Looks I skied on in the '70s had a lot of elasticity, but slow return to center force. Also the toe was very sensitive to forward pressure and on softer "Freestyle" skis like the THE or the every popular (at least then) Hart Freestyle the binding could be caught out in a deep bend, toe going in to shock absorption and then not having the room to move back against the non-moving heel. I still have a split muscle in the side of my right leg from a Look pre-release. I was on a friends Kniessl Short Comps with Looks, I was in the middle of a big floater helicopter when the left ski released, the safety strap took that loose ski and wrapped it around both of my legs smacking my right leg so aggressively I still have the physical evidence. Hog tied 20(ish) feet in the air trying to get a lot of down the landing hill distance lets just say the landing was memorable. So back to the mogul ski...don't worry about it if you don't like them, I like my skis like my cars and bikes...light and quick.
 

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SSSdave

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@CS2-6 >>>...Twisters (RIP) :(
 
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