World Cup 2019/20 Season WOMEN

[Swede]

It need to be injected to hold up. And Killington is actually flatter (hearsy from Swedish team members since I have not been personally) than Levi’s steepest parts. And Levi can get cooold. This year was abnormally hot. 5-10F usual.
Looked from afar as a few parts of the course got really rutted (just where the mid intermediate time was) and the set was a bit tricky there with fall off. Lots of skiers lost time in that section, Mikaela too. And quite a few looked ”ugly”, but the set was almost Kostelic there.
ASL did a great 2:nd run where she had the 2:nd or 3:rd fastest run (Löseth and one of the younger Norwegians were faster). Too catious in 1:st otherwise I believe she would have challenged Vlova for 2:nd. Shiffrin not much to do about.

 

[Primoz]

I have never been there, but from what I saw in those few runs that I have seen on TV, Killington is far from hardest on tour. But thing is, as soon as you get some at least half decent injection on, there's Shiffrin who is able to ski relatively normal, and the rest are just trying to survive. While I agree every single course should be properly injected, and it's only way to have at least somehow fair race for numbers back, I also agree that this is absolutely no commercial for skiing, when there's second one is 2+sec back, and 10th placed is almost 5sec back. And on top of that, everyone but Shiffrin look like beginners on skis fighting that track. So considering this, I would say it would be better for women race to be run on natural snow without any injection, and if weather is warm, they will be knee deep in snow after number 5... still better then trying to watch this suffering on icy course.

 

[Bolder]

^^Agree 100 percent.

I never quite understood the need to inject so much water. If your goal is to create the fastest course possible, just build a refrigerated piste, like in boblsled. I would much prefer watching racers tear up more "typical" conditions that we ski in all the time, whether it's slush, ice, powder, hardpack etc. I suspect we'd see the same results as now in any event.

I agree that because of daily warming etc. you want to make it fairer as Primoz says, But I've seen a number of races that just looked downright dangerous, although you can catch an edge in any conditions. Still, slamming your head on an icy course has got to be more likely to concuss than on a softer, slower one.

Anyway, Shiffrin is still on another level, as she's been for what, 5-6 years now?

 

[Primoz]

@Bolder my point is different then yours I don't want to see, and even less watch racing on "more typical conditions to what we ski", but then again, I'm pretty sure I don't want to watch women racing on icy courses either (don't give a shit if this doesn't fit into currently so popular "being politically correct about feminism stuff" ) Thing is, properly injected course is safest and most fair surface you can get for ski racing. It's not about speed but safety and fairness. It enables skiers with higher numbers then 1 to race safely and do their best, which is not possible when snow conditions would be "normal" (what people are used to see on ski places). Problem is, that women are obviously not capable of skiing that, but in my opinion, that's not something FIS or organizers should worry, but it's something what women and their coaches should ask themself why the hell they are not able to ski, if it gets a bit icy (I mean every single one but Shiffrin). And I'm not joking with "a bit icy". On women tour it's literally end of the world when it gets a bit harder, and worse possible ice women saw is considered almost unskiable soft track on men race (luckily we are done with I'm sure I could easily win men race if they would just let me race ). Another thing is weather changes.... when you get some rain and snow gets soft, deep injection is only thing to still enable skiing after day or two of rain and high temperatures. No such preparation and race can be canceled day before already.

 

[karlo]

While I agree every single course should be properly injected, and it's only way to have at least somehow fair race for numbers back, I also agree that this is absolutely no commercial for skiing, when there's second one is 2+sec back, and 10th placed is almost 5sec back.

Don’t highest ranked skiers ski first on the first run? So, a good handicap would be to ski on injected for the 1st run and non-injected on the 2nd.

 

[Primoz]

Don’t highest ranked skiers ski first on the first run?

They do, but in soft conditions, number 2 is not going to have chance, while you can still be ranked as first and get number 7. There's 2 groups of racers, 1-7 and 8-15, who have bib draw day before, and you can be ranked first, and get any number between 1 and 7 or you can be ranked 8th and get any number between 8 or 15 (for tech, speed is done a bit different). So in super soft conditions, you can be Shiffrin and have bad luck previous evening and draw no.7, and you have absolutely no chance. For second run in such conditions difference between number 25 and 30 (5th placed after first run and leader after first run) is not so big anymore as you are knee deep in shit anyway so another cm or two deeper doesn't matter much
If someone would ask me (I know why the hell should they??), I would say give them men injection and make them learn how to ski Races would be more interesting as some young kid, with number 40 or 50 would have chance, which nowadays she doesn't have.

 

[Swede]

@Primoz You are so ... eastern European harsh. Women's courses are are normally not injected like men's courses, but still they are pretty damn hard compared to a normal piste. W/o injecting they would tear the course up in 5-6 skiers and it would be a very unfair competition and unsafe. You want it to hold. Loose snow is scary when you put down 3-4G:s on your edge.
@karlo for the second run they reverse the order (tech). Like yesterday Shiffrin went out last in the 2:nd run (after 29 other athletes). You could see how the detoriated track affected here skiing and her time, don't have the times but she won the race in her 1:st run. 2:nd I would actually be surprised if she made into top 5. If it wasn't injected it would be unskiable by bib 20 or so. Come spring and it happens also on the WC.
EDIT: As a side comment, this is also a reason for many "new comers" to play it safe when they are fresh on the WC. You need to get into top 30 to get a decent chance. Outside 30 is is tough even if you are good. You need to get into those lower bibs and gradually work your way in to the seeded groups mentioned by @Primoz earlier.

 

[James]

You could see how the detoriated track affected here skiing and her time, don't have the times but she won the race in her 1:st run. 2:nd I would actually be surprised if she made into top 5. If it wasn't injected it would be unskiable by bib 20 or so.

Shiffrin was 4th on 2nd run, about 0.6 behind Nina Haver-Loeseth who was 17th on 1st run.

http://medias3.fis-ski.com/pdf/2020/AL/5027/2020AL5027RLR2.pdf

 

[James]

In the gs 1st run Katharina Huber went from dead last, 60, to finish 21st. She ended up 20th. Was there some points issue why she started last?

http://medias3.fis-ski.com/pdf/2020/AL/5026/2020AL5026RLR1.pdf

 

[PinnacleJim]

That’s four in a row at Killington for Mikaela. At some point, something in the Superstar trail area might have to be renamed. Even if it’s just the final pitch where she usually makes a lot of time.

That final pitch already has a name - Preston's Pitch. Named after the founder of Killington.

 

[James]

That final pitch already has a name - Preston's Pitch. Named after the founder of Killington.

Ah, so that's Preston's pitch. Mikaela may acquire it. Give him the pitch on Ovation next door.

 

[hbear]

You are testing the best in the world. Surely they can handle a little water bar to the course. Should be standard practice in my mind.

 

[Swede]

Shiffrin was 4th on 2nd run, about 0.6 behind Nina Haver-Loeseth who was 17th on 1st run.

http://medias3.fis-ski.com/pdf/2020/AL/5027/2020AL5027RLR2.pdf

Ok 4th, and (as a comparison) in 1st MS was 4 seconds faster than Löseth. That is ... incredibly much.

 

[Swede]

In the gs 1st run Katharina Huber went from dead last, 60, to finish 21st. She ended up 20th. Was there some points issue why she started last?

http://medias3.fis-ski.com/pdf/2020/AL/5026/2020AL5026RLR1.pdf

Only a couple GS starts on the WC and no points. And then the (un)luck of the draw in the unseeded bunch.

 

[S.H.]

Only a couple GS starts on the WC and no points. And then the (un)luck of the draw in the unseeded bunch.

racers 31+ are seeded by FIS points, no?

 

[Swede]

racers 31+ are seeded by FIS points, no?

Yes, that is right. It is FIS points that count when no WC points, but national quotas also decide if you get to start. A bit complicated I must admit. FIS is the other way around from WC and the lower is the better.

 

[S.H.]

Yes, that is right. It is FIS points that count when no WC points, but national quotas also decide if you get to start. A bit complicated I must admit. FIS is the other way around from WC and the lower is the better.

my point being that it's really not luck of the draw that Huber was 60, it was her rightfully earned start slot. Obviously national bodies must enter athletes into each race.

 

[Tricia]

I was not able to watch yesterday so I watched the slalom while having breakfast this morning.
There is something about watching Mikaela ski slalom that seems effortless, like she came out of the womb doing it.
I know how much work she puts into being the incredible skier she is but dang she makes it look easy, its like she's not even trying.

 

[karlo]

dang she makes it look easy, its like she's not even trying.

Fast forward to Run 2.

 

[Teppaz]

I was not able to watch yesterday so I watched the slalom while having breakfast this morning.
There is something about watching Mikaela ski slalom that seems effortless, like she came out of the womb doing it.
I know how much work she puts into being the incredible skier she is but dang she makes it look easy, its like she's not even trying. View attachment 86119

There is a smoothness to her that is just incredible. Everybody looked to be fighting the backseat except for Shiffrin.